HomeMy WebLinkAboutPC Minutes March 26.1980 CITY OF RANCHO CUCAMONGA
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
REPORTER' S TRANSCRIPT
OF
PROCEEDINGS
CITY OF RANCHO CUCAMONGA PLANNING COMMISSION
MEETING, ON WEDNESDAY, MARCH 26, Vail, 7 : 00
P.M . , LIONS PARK COMMUNITY CENTER, 9I61 (SASE
LINE, RANCHO CUCAMONGA, CALIFORNIA, Vt=ORE
SUSAN J . WILSON, CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTER
AND NOTARY PUBLIC IN AND FOR THE COUNTY OF
LOS ANGELES, STATE OF CALIFORNIA.
Reported By: S USAN J . W I LSON Park Avenue Deposition Service
C S R NO 4582 100 Pornom ivlall West
Suile 502A, Home Savings Building
Pomona, California 917N
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4 APPEARANCES :
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8 PAUL ROUGEAU, ASSOCIATE CIVIL ENGINEER
9 BARRY K . HOGAN, SENIOR PLANNER
10 JACK LAM, CITY DEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR
11 EDWARD A. HOPSON, CITY ATTORNEY
12 HERMAN REMPEL, PLANNING COMMISSIONER
13 LAURA JONES, PLANNING COMMISSIONER
14 JORGE GARCIA, PLANNING COMMISSIONER
15 PETER TOLSTOY, PLANNING COMMISSIONER
16 RICHARD DAHL, PLANNING COMMISSIONER
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1 RANCHO CUCAMONGA, CALIFORNIA, MARCH 26, 1980, 7 : 00 P .M .
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5 MR . REMPEL: I ` LL CALL THE MEETING OF THE CITY
6 OF RANCHO CUCAMONGA PLANNING COMMISSION TO ORDER FOR
7 WEDNESDAY, MARCH 26TH FLEETING .
8 SHALL WE STAND FOR THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE .
9 ROLL CALL : COMMISSIONER DAHL .
10 MR. DAHL : YES .
11 MR. REMPEL: COMMISSIONER GARCIA.
12 MR . GARCIA : PRESENT.
13 MR. REMPEL : COMMISSIONER REMPEL IS HERE .
14 COMMISSIONER JONES .
15 MS . JONES : HERE .
16 MR . REMPEL : COMMISSIONER TOLSTOY .
17 MR . TOLSTOY : HERE .
18 MR. REMPEL : WE HAVE NO MINUTES TO OFFER TONIGHT .
19 WE GO, THEN, TO ANNOUNCEMENTS .
20 MR . LAM: THERE WILL BE A CITY COUNCIL MEETING,
21 SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL MEETING, TOMORROW EVENING TO DISCUSS
22 THE TOPIC OF THE GENERAL PLAN, AND IT WILL BE TOMORROW
23 EVENING HERE IN THIS BUILDING AT 7 : 00 IN THE EVENING . IT
24 IS A PUBLIC MEETING, AND THE PUBLIC IS INVITED .
25 MR , REMPEL : IS THAT IT?
26 f,.
MR . LAPi: YES . P{
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1 MR. REMPEL: ARE THERE A14Y COMMISSIONERS THAT HAVE
2 ANY ANNOUNCEMENTS?
3 N0W, CAN WE MOVE ON TO ITEM V, CONSEItiT
4 CALENDAR? IS THERE ANY ITEMS THAT YOU WISH TO DISCUSS ON
5 THE CONSENT CALENDAR?
6 MS . JONES : MR. CHAIRMAN, I MOVE THAT WE ADOPT
7 TIME CONSENT CALENDAR AS IS .
8 MR. REMPEL : IS THERE A SECOND?
9 MR . GARCIA: I SECOND.
10 MR . REMPEL : ANYONE IN THE AUDIENCE THAT HAS ANY
11 PROBLEM WITH OUR ADOPTION OF THE CONSENT CALENDAR AS IS?
12 IF NOT, THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE .
13 ALL COMMISSIONERS : AYE .
14 MR . REMPEL : OPPOSED?
15 (NO RESPONSE . )
16 MR . REMPEL: SO CARRIED .
17 LET ' S MOVE ON, THEN, TO ITEM VI , THE GENERA
18 PLAN .
19 MR. LAM: MR, CHAIRMAN, FOR THOSE OF THE AUDIENCE
20 WHO HAVE NOT BEEN ATTENDING PREVIOUS MEETINGS, I !MOULD LIIGE
21 TO PROVIDE A LITTLE BIT OF BACKGROUND TO THE SUBJECT OF
22 THE PLAN AND THE ISSUE OF THE REGIONAL SHOPPING CENTER
23 WHICH WE WILL BE DISCUSSING THIS EVENING .
24 THE CITY, SHORTLY AFTER INCORPORATION,
25 DEVELOPED, THROUGH T1-IE HELP OF A PLANNING CONSULTANT, AN
26 INTERIM GENERAL PLAN WHICH INCLUDES AN INTERIM LAIND USE
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1 ELEMENT SHOWS THREE POTENTIAL SITES FOR POTENTIAL REGIONAL
2 CENTERS . EACH SITE IS DIFFERENT FROM THE OTHERS, AND EACH
3 HAS DIFFERENT CHARACTERISTICS. BECAUSE THE CITY WAS NOT
4 ABLE TO COMPLETE ITS ENTIRE GENERAL PLAN DUPING THAT ONE
5 PERIOD OF TIME, IT WAS DECIDED TO DETERMINE THE LAND USE
6 ELEMENT AN INTERIM ONE, ONE WHICH WILL BE COMPLETED WITH THE
7 ADOPTION OF THE COMPLETE GENERAL PLAN, HOPEFULLY SOMEWHERE
8 AROUND AUGUST, 1990 .
9 WE PRESENTLY HAVE ENGAGED A PLANNING CON-
10 SULTANT, THE FIRM OF SEDWAY/COOKE, TO DEVELOP THE COMPLETE
11 GENERAL, PLAN AND TO REVISE THE LAND USE ELEMENT APPRO-
12 PRIATELY CONSISTENT WITH THE REMAINING ELEMENTS THAT NEED
13 TO BE DEVELOPED.
14 IN ORDER TO COMPLETE THE WORT: OF DEVELOPING
15 A DRAFT GENERAL PLAN FOR PUBLIC HEARING, AND IN ORDER TO
16 COMPLETE THE DRAFT TO PREPARE AN ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT
17 ASSESSMENT, THE PLANNING CONSULTANT NEEDS SOME DIRECTION
18 FROM THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND CITY COUNCIL AS TO POLICY
19 DIRECTIONS IN TERMS OF THE LOCATION OF A POTENTIAL REGIONAL
20 SHOPPING CENTER, SO THAT A LAND USE ELEMENT CAN BE PREPARED
21 AND THE E . I . R . PREPARED FOR PUBLIC HEARING PURPOSES .
22 SO WHAT WE WILL BE TALKING ABOUT THIS
23 EVENING IS NOT A DECISION FOR AN APPROVAL OF A REGIONAL
24 SHOPPING CENTER, NOR ARE WE TALKING ABOUT THE DESIGN OF A
25 REGIONAL SHOPPING CENTER, BUT WE WILL BE TALKING ABOUT THE
26 LOCATION OF A CENTER RELATIVE TO WHAT THE GOALS AND
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1 OBJECTIVES ARE FOR THE COMMUNITY, FOR RANCHO CUCAMONGA;
2 WHAT KIND OF BENEFITS IT WILL HAVE FOR THE COMMUNITY BASED
3 UPON LOCATIONAL ISSUES . WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT THE ISSUE
4 OF REVENUE OR ISSUES OF SPECIFICS OF DESIGN, ACCESS, AND
5 SO FORTH . WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE SITING OF A SITE IN
6 RELATIONSHIP TO THE GENERAL PLAN GOALS AND OBJECTIVES . SO
7 WE WILL BE TALKING ABOUT IT FROM THAT FRAMEWORK , ANY
8 DISCUSSION OF THE DESIGN OF A REGIONAL SHOPPING CENTER OR
9 SPECIFICS OF DETAILED USES MUST ONLY BE CONSIDERED AT THE
10 TIME WHEN THERE IS AN APPLICATION FOR A REGIONAL CENTER
11 SITE PLAN, DETAILED PLANS FOR SUBMITTAL. SO I WANT TO
12 MAKE THAT DISTINCTION. WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE CONCEPTUAL
13 ISSUES OF A REGIONAL CENTER VIA THE LAND USE ELEMENT . WE
14 ARE AT THIS LEVEL AND NOT AT THIS LEVEL . THE PLANNING
15 COMMISSION CAI,-,' CONSIDER MANY ELEMENTS REGARDING THE POTEN-
16 TIAL LOCATION OF A REGIONAL, THE CONCEPTUAL ISSUES OF
17 TRAFFIC FLOW, RELATIONSHIP TO OTHER LAND USES, RELATIONSHIP
18 TO CHARACTER OF THE COMMUNITY, ALL THOSE KINDS OF CONCEP-
19 TUAL ISSUES THAT RELATE TO A GENERAL PLAN.
20 IN THE COURSE OF DEVELOPMENT OF THE GENERAL
21 PLAN.; THE CONSULTANT HAS PREPARED A NUMBER OF ALTERNATIVES
22 THAT EXPLORE DIFFERENT CHARACTERS OF LAND USE FOR DIFFERENT
23 LAND USE PROPOSALS . THE PLANNING COMMISSION HAS REVIEWED
24 THOSE, AS WELL AS THE CITIZENS ADVISORY COMMITTEE APPOINTED
25 3Y THE CITY COUNCIL. THE CITIZENS ADVISORY COMMITTEE IS
26 A BROAD---BASED COMMUNITY GROUP SELECTED BY THE CITY COUNCIL
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1 TO GET BROAD-BASED REPRESENTATION AND INPUT INTO THE GENERA
2 PLAN . THE CITIZENS ADVISORY COMMITTEE, IN THEIR DISCUSSIONS ,
3 HAVE LEANED TOWARD A DIRECTION WITH THREE GUIDELINES OR
4 GUIDANCES . ONE IS, THEY AGREE WITH THE CONCEPT THAT ANY
S CIVIC FACILITY BUILT IN THE FUTURE WOULD BE CENTRAL IN THE
6 COMMUNITY SO THAT IT CAN SERVE MOST OF THE PEOPLE IN THE
7 COMMUNITY EQUIDISTANT. THE OTHER ISSUE IS THAT THE C .A. C .
8 WOULD PREFER TO SEE THE REGIONAL TRAFFIC BE, AS MUCH AS
9 PRACTICABLE, SEPARATED FROM THE MAIN PORTIONS OF THE CITY .
10 THOSE ARE THE PRIMARY CONSIDERATIONS . I LEFT ONE OUT : THE
11 ISSUE OF A DUAL NUCLEI CONCEPT FOR THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE
12 LAND USE ELEMENT; THAT IS, THAT THERE COULD BE A CENTRAL
13 THEME AND EXTERNAL THEME BASED UPON T140 DIFFERENT CHARACTER.
i4 OF CENTERS OR CENTRAL LOCATIONS, FOCAL POINTS, IN THE
15 COMMUNITY . EACH WOULD HAVE A DIFFERENT CHARACTER .
16 WITH THAT, I !MOULD REQUEST THAT THE PLANNIN -
17 COMMISSION GIVE A RECOMMENDATION OR DECIDE UPON A RECOMMEN-
18 DATION TO THE CITY COUNCIL IN TERMS OF POLICY DIRECTION TO
19 THE CONSULTANT IN ORDER TO GUIDE THE CONSULTANT IN PREPARIN
20 A DRAFT GENERAL PLAN FOR PUBLIC ;TEARING PURPOSES .
21 I ' LL BE HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS .
22 MR. REMPEL : ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT MR. LAMS REPORT
23 CNO RESPONSE . )
24 MR . REMPEL: IF NO, THEN I THINK INE NEED TO HAVE
25 SOME TYPE OF GROUND RULES FOR WHAT WE ARE GOING TO CONTINUE
26 TO DO HERE THIS EVENING. I DON' T THINK WE WANT ANOTHER
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1 PRESENTATION LIKE WE HAD MONDAY NIGHT. I THINK, IF IT WOULD
2 BE SATISFACTORY TO THE COMMISSION, THAT WE MIGHT GIVE, JUST
3 TO REFRESH OURSELVES AND THE AUDIENCE, A LITTLE BIT OF THE
4 MAJOR POINTS OF EACH PROPOSAL, TO GIVE A FIVE-MINUTE,
5 MAXIMUll TEN-MINUTE PRESENTATION, AND THEN ANY COMMENTS FROM
6 THE AUDIENCE, AND THEN IF WE COULD GO INTO OUR DISCUSSIONS,
7 IF THAT WOULD BE SATISFACTORY .
8 MR. LEWIS : PLEASE, MR. CHAIRMAN, COULD IT BE
9 MORE THAN FIVE?
10 MR . REMPEL : I SAID FIVE TO TEN .
11 MR. GARCIA : I WOULD CONCUR WITH THAT, MR .
12 CHAIRMAN .
13 MS . JONES : THAT WOULD BE AGREEABLE .
14 MR. REMPEL: ALL RIGHT, THEN, WHEN WE DO GET
15 INTO THE REST OF THE DISCUSSION, WE WOULD LIKE THAT, IF
16 YOU HAVE SOME POINTS TO BRING UP, THAT WE NOT KEEP REPEATING ,
17 AND I DEFINITELY 14ILL NOT ALLOW THE MEETING TO GET INTO AN
18 ARGUMENTATIVE TYPE OF SITUATION, BECAUSE I DON' T THINK THAT
19 HELPS ANYBODY .
20 SO, WITH THAT, THEN, I WILL OPEN THE MEETING
21 TONIGHT.
22 MR . LEWIS, DO YOU WANT TO LEAD OFF?
23 MR. LEWIS : IF I MAY .
24 I ' M RALPH LEWIS, AND WE HAVE THE LAND
25 CALLED TERRA VISTA, STARTING AT THE CORNER OF HAVEN AND
26 FOOTHILL, ABOUT 1300 ACRES . I WILL NOT REPEAT WHAT WE
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1 COVERED MONDAY MIGHT, BUT I THINK I HAVE SOME NEW INFORMATION
2 THAT WILL BE OF INTEREST.
3 FIRST, LOOKING AT THE STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS
4 WHICH WE WERE GIVEN A COPY OF, WE ARE HAPPY THE STAFF POINTS
5 OUT THAT TRAFFIC IS NOT THE DECIDING FACTOR. IT' S IMPOR--
6 TANT, BUT THE CONSULTANT SAID THAT A REGIONAL COULD WORK,
7 TRAFFIC—WISE, AT ANY RESONABLE LOCATION . THE STAFF REPORT
8 MENTIONS FACTORS THAT SHOULD BE CONSIDERED. TRAFFIC IS
9 NOT A MAJOR ISSUE .
10 I THINK WHAT SHOULD BE A VERY MAJOR ISSUE
11 IS WHAT YOUR OWN PEOPLE OF RANCHO CUCAMONGA WANT, AND I ' LL
12 DWELL ON THAT IN A LITTLE DETAIL. SEVERAL WEEKS AGO AT
13 ONE OF THE CITIZENS ADVISORY COMMITTEE MEETINGS, SOMEBODY --
14 r DON' T KNOW WHO; IT WASN ' T FROM OUR COMPANY -- GOT UP I N
15 THE BACK OF THE ROOM AND SAID, "WHO ARE WE PLANNING THE
16 CENTER FOR? FOR OUR OWN PEOPLE IN T!HE COMMUNITY OR FOR
17 OUTSIDERS SOMEWHERE ELSE?" I SUBMIT THAT' S QUITE A KEY
18 QUESTION . I HAVE 5011E GOOD ARGUMENTATIVE STUFF, BUT I ' LL
19 ACCEDE TO YOUR REQUEST AND LEAVE IT OUT .
20 WE WERE TALKING THIS MORNING -- ONE OF OUR
21 EMPLOYEES WAS TALKING TO SOMEBODY -- DON' T BE OFFENDED BY
22 THIS -- BUT HE TOLD OUR MAN, "HEY, WHY ARE YOU GUYS FIGHTIN
23 HARD AND TAKING ALL THE TIME? IT' S ALREADY SETTLED . "
24 AND I SAID, "011's, I DON' T BELIEVE THAT. "
25 BUT, THEN, THIS MORNING WE GOT TO WONDERING
26 WHAT CAN WE DO TO HELP OUR ARGUMENT? WE THOUGHT WHY NOT JU T
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1 GO OUT AND ASK SOME OF THE PEOPLE WHAT THEY WANT. AND SO
2 WE TYPED UP A LITTLE PETITION1 AND SENT SOME OF OUR
3 EMPLOYEES -- BOOKKEEPERS AND DRAFTSMEN AND SO ON ---- WE
4 SAID GO OVER TO THE VARIOUS SHOPPING CENTERS WHERE THE
5 PEOPLE ARE AND JUST ASK THEM SIMPLY, THE CITY IS GOING TO
6 HAVE A REGIONAL CENTER; WOULD YOU PREFER THAT IT BE AT
7 MAVEN AND FOOTHILL OR THE FREEWAY AND FOOTHILL? AND HERE ' S
8 WHAT WE FOUND. WE HAVE PETITIONS SIGNED 6Y 833 RESIDENTS
9 OF THIS CITY, NOT STRANGERS . THIS WAS DONE MUST IN A FEW
10 HOURS THIS AFTERNOON, THE PETITIONS ARE SIGNED BY MORE
11 THAN 833 . WE APPROACHED 1, 053 AND ASKED IF THEY ' D SIGN
12 A PETITION . OUT OF THOSE, 745 SIGNER IT, AND SAID, IN
13 EFFECT,, 70 PERCENT OF THE. PEOPLE WE APPROACHED SAID THEY
14 PREFER OUR SITE RATHER THAN THE SITE BY THE FREEWAY . OF
15 THE ONES THAT REFUSED TO SIGN, WE ASKED WHY . 48 OF THEM
16 SAID, WELL, WE DON' T LIVE IN THE CITY; AND WE DIDN' T WANT
17 ANY STRANGERS TO SIGN IT. ANOTHER 107 OF THE SHOPPERS,
18 THEY JUST SAID, "HEY, I 'M TOO BUSY OR I HAVE 110 OPINION . "
19 AND OUT OF THE 1, 053 PEOPLE CONTACTED, ONLY 89 REFUSED TO
20 SIGN BECAUSE THEY SAID THEY PREFER THE HAHN SITE , SO,
21 THAT' S LESS THAN NINE PERCENT OF THE PEOPLE THAT ARE
22 OPPOSED TO HAVING THE SITE ON OUR SITE, AND OVER 70 PERCENT
23 SAY THEY DEFINITELY PREFER OUR SITE, AND THE REST WERE
24 THE IN-BETWEENS THERE.
25 I THINK, THOSE 14UiMiBERS SPEAK LOUDLY FOR
26 THEMSELVES . IT SEEMS CLEAR TO US THAT THE PEOPLE OF THE
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i CITY WANT A CENTER THAT' S CENTRALLY LOCATED TO THEM, AN
2 ATTRACTIVE TOWN CENTER COMPLEX . ALL OF THAT WASN ' T DIS-
3 CUSSED IN THE POLL TAKING, BUT I HOPE YOU WILL GIVE WAY
4 TO WHAT THE PEOPLE WE CONTACTED SAID THAT THEY WANT ,
5 NOW, OTHER NEW POINTS . COMMISSIONER
6 TOLSTOY ASKED ME MONDAY NIGHT ABOUT OUR PARK SYSTEM, HOW
7 IT ?MOULD APPROACH THE CENTER, HOW WOULD PEOPLE GET IN THERE .
8 AND I SHOULD HAVE POINTED OUT 14E ARE GOING TO HAVE A
9 CROSSING OF CLEVELAND OR THE GREENBELT AROUND THE CENTER,
10 AND IT WILL EITHER BE AN UNDERPASS OR OVERPASS, WHICHEVER
11 OUR ENGINEERS SAY IS SAFER AND BETTER AND 50 ON . BUT YOU
12 WOULD BE ABLE TO, LIKE, TO RIDE A BIKE OR STROLL OR WALK
13 OR WHATEVER YOU WANT FROM ANYWHERE ALONG THE GREENBELT
14 RIGHT INTO THE CENTER.
15 A COUPLE OTHER IMPORTANT POINTS . WE HAVE
16 A FLOOD CONTROL ENGINEER HERE TONIGHT WHO WILL BE HAPPY
17 TO SPEAK, IF YOU WISH. HE STATED, WITH RESPECT TO FLOOD
18 HAZARD OR FLOOD PROBLEMS, THAT SINCE WE ALL KNOW THAT
19 DEER CREEK IS BEING IMPROVED BY THE COMPS OF ENGINEERS,
20 ANY WATER THAT OUR HUNDRED-ACRE SITE WOULD GENERATE ---
21 IT' S MORE THAN A HUNDRED . IT TWILL HAVE REGIONAL-RELATED
22 BUILDINGS AROU14D IT -- BUT THE EXCESS WATER THAT ' S GENERATE
23 BY PAVING AND HAVING ROOFS CAN BE HANDLED EASILY BY PIPING
24 IT RIGHT INTO DEER CREEK . WE JUST HAVE TO CROSS HAVEN,
26 GO DOWN FOOTHILL A BLOCK, AND 'WE CAN HANDLE IT . HE CAN
26 TELL YOU THAT THE CENTER ON THE FREEWAY WILL CREATE THE
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1 SAME RUNOFF OURS WILL, BUT THAT WATER MOULD GO INTO DAY
2 CREEK AND DAY CREEK DOESN' T RUN ANYWHERE . IT' S NOT SCHEDULE
3 TO BE IMPROVED, AND WE THINK THAT ' S AN IMPORTANT FACTOR THAT
4 YOU HAVE TO CONSIDER. WHAT HAPPENS IF YOU FAVOR THAT SITE,
5 THEN LATER THEY HAVE PROBLEMS WORKING IT OUT, OR IF THEY
6 HAVE TO WAIT FOR THE CORPS OF ENGINEERS TO GO? WHAT I ` M
7 SAYING IS WE THINK OUR CENTER CAN GO AT LEAST SEVERAL YEARS
8 ---- ANYWHERE FROM TWO TO FIVE YEARS SOONER, AND WE AGREE WITH
9 THE OTHER DEVELOPER THAT EACH YEAR THE CENTER IS OPEN, YOU
10 ARE GOING TO GET SOMETHING OVER A MILLION DOLLARS IN SALES
11 TAX. REVENUE; SO A FEW YEARS ' DIFFERENCE. IS A MAJOR FACTOR .
12 A MINOR POINT, WE THINK OUR CENTER IS MORE
13 CONVENIENT FOR ALL THE PEOPLE AT CHAFFEY COLLEGE . WE PRO
14 POSE TO SET UP A SCHOLARSHIP AT THE COLLEGE WITH SOME NUMBER
15 ---- THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS . IT WILL BE QUITE A BIT MORE THAN
16 THE PREVIOUS SCHOLARSHIP WE ALREADY GAVE THEM, BUT THAT
17 WOULD BE FOR TRAINING STUDENTS IN MERCHANDISING FIELDS
18 REPRESENTED BY THE CENTER . WE THINK, ALSO, THE CENTER WILL
19 PROVIDE EMPLOYMENT FOR STUDENTS . MY WIFE AND I WORKED AT
20 THE MAY COMPANY AND BROADWAY WHEN WE WERE IN COLLEGE, AND
21 I THINK THAT THERE ' S QUITE A SIGNIFICANT OPPORTUNITY FOR
22 THE CHAFFEY STUDENTS .
23 FINALLY, MR. HAHN MENTIONED THE OTHER NIGHT
24 THAT HE GAVE PARTNERSHIP INTEREST TO MAY COMPANY A1',1D BROADWA
25 TO INTRODUCE THEM TO HIS CENTER . THERE IS NOTHING AT ALL
26 WRONG WITH THAT, AND IT' S COMMON IN THE INDUSTRY . I DON' T
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1 MEAN TO IMPLY THAT THERE IS ANYTHING WRONG, BUT WE THOUGHT
2 -- WE TALKED TO OUR ASSOCIATES IN CHICAGO TODAY, HOMART,
3 AND WE THOUGHT WHY GIVE INTEREST TO THE DEPARTMENT STORES?
4 WE ' D RATHER GIVE DIRECTLY TO THE COMMUNITY . SO WEsRE
5 PREPARED TO SAY THAT WE WILL OFFER TO THE CITY FOR A CIVIC
6 CENTER ATTACHED TO THE CENTER LAND OF 10 ACRES, WHICH I
7 THINK HAS A MARKET VALUE --- OR YOUR APPRAISERS MOULD BE
8 ABLE TO ESTABLISH -- LAND ADJOINING THE SHOPPING CENTER
9 WOULD HAVE A VALUE IN EXCESS OF A HUNDRED THOUSAND AN
10 ACRE; SO THAT THAT DONATION COULD AMOUNT TO OVER A MILLION
11 DOLLARS . AND WE THINK THAT' S MORE IN THE PUBLIC INTEREST
12 THAN OUR SHARING WITH THE DEPARTMENT STORKS .
13 NOt° , MR. HULINE IS HERE FROM HOMART, AND
14 HE CAN ANSWER QUESTIONS ABOUT TYPES OF TENANTS, IF YOU HAVE
15 THEM, AND OTHER REASONS WHY OUR SITE IS BETTER. GILL MANN,
16 THE ENGINEER, IS HERE, IF YOU WISH TO ASK HIM ABOUT WHAT
17 I SAID ON THE FLOOD CONTROL PROBLEM.
18 THAN!: YOU. I r LL TURN IN THESE PETITIONS
19 WITH ALL THE SIGNATURES 'I'O ONE OF THE STAFF MEN TO EXAMINE;
20 BUT I ' LL CERTIFY THAT THEY ARE NOT OUR EMPLOYEES, THEY ARE
21 NOT FORGERIES AND SO ON..
22 MR . TOLSTOY : MR. LEWIS, BEFORE YOU LEAVE, !WOULD
23 YOU GIVE US THE QUESTION THAT YOU ASKED THE PEOPLE, AGAIN,
24 PLEASE .
25 MR . LEWIS : "PETITION' TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION
26 AND CITY COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF RANCHO CUCAMONGA. WE . THE
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1 UNDERSIGNED RESIDENTS OF THE CITY OF RANCHO CUCAMONGA WISH
2 TO EXPRESS OUR WISHES" --- NOT WORDED TOO WELL -- "REGARDING
3 THE LOCATION OF A PROPOSED REGIONAL SHOPPING CENTER, RANCHO
4 CUCAMONGA. IT IS OUR UNDERSTANDING THAT TWO PRIMARY LOCA-
S TIONS ARE UNDER CONSIDERATION : ONE AT THE INTERSECTION OF
6 HAVEN AVENUE AND FOOTHILL BOULEVARD, AND THE OTHER AT THE
7 INTERSECTION OF INTERSTATE 15, THE DEVORE FREEWAY, AND
8 FOOTHILL BOULEVARD. WE PREFER THAT THE REGIONAL CENTER
9 BE LOCATED AT HAVEN AND FOOTHILL , "
10 IN OTHER WORDS, IF THEY DON t T PREFER IT,
11 THEN THEY DIDN ' T SIGN IT. SO THE SIGNATURES I HAVE ALL
12 PREFER IT.
13 MR. TOLSTOY : THANK YOU.
14 MR. REMPEL : ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS?
15 (NO RESPONSE . )
16 I�R. REMPEL : YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE TO HOLD YOURS
17 PRETTY SHORT HERE .
18 IAR. TIBBETTS : I 'M ALLEN TIBBETTS, 120 LINDEN
19 AVENUE, LONG BEACH . I ' M AN ATTORNEY APPEARING FOR HOMART .
20 I JUST 14ANTED TO RELAY TO YOU THE TWO
21 CONCERNS OF HOMART . THE FIRST IS THAT WHATEVER FOR14 YOUR
22 RECOMMENDATION TAKES TONIGHT, THAT IT NIOT FORECLOSE US
23 FROM PRESENTING FURTHER EVIDENCE IN SUPPORT OF YOUR PROJECT,
24 SINCE THERE ARE MANY QUESTIONS RAISED, STUDIES UNDER WAY
25 THAT ARE OF INTEREST AND WILL BEAR ON THE DECISION THAT' S
26 TO BE MADE .
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1 THE SECOND IS, AS YOU KNOW, WHEN THE GENERAL
2 PLAN COMES BEFORE YOU AND THE COUNCIL FOR CERTIFICATION OR
3 FOR APPROVAL, THERE WILL BE AN ENVIRONMENTAL. IMPACT REPORT
4 PRESENTED FOR CERTIFICATION; AND UNDER THE CALIFORNIA E1NVIRO �-
5 MENTAL QUALIFY ACT, OUR ALTERNATIVES WITH RESPECT TO ENVIRON
6 MENTAL, ECONOMIC, AND SOCIOECONOMIC CONCERNS SHOULD BE
7 CONSIDERED . AND, AGAIN, WE WOULD HOPE THAT ANY RECOMiMENDA-
8 TIONS PRESENTED TO THE CONSULTANT PREPARING THE GENERAL PLAN
9 BE DRAWN IN SUCH A WAY THAT HE NOT BE FORECLOSED FROM CON-
10 SIDERING THE MERITS OF OUR SITE IN ADDITION WITH OTHER SITES
11 IN THE CITY .
12 PAIR. REMPEL : THANK YOU.
13 IS THERE ANYONE HERE, THEN, FROM LYON
14 COMPANY OR HAHN COMPANY THAT WISHES TO MAI:E A PRESENTATION?
15 MR. TARANTON : MR, CHAIRMAN AND MEMBERS OF THE
16 COMMISSION, MY NAME IS JAY TARANTON, AND I °M THE PROJECT
17 MANAGER FOR THE HAHN COMPANY. THIS PROJECT HAS BEEN ASSIGNED
18 TO ME .
19 BASICALLY, THE POINTS THAT I ' D LIKE TO GO
20 OVER, WHICH WE PRESENTED ON MONdDAY NIGHT OR MR. HAHN PRE-
21 SENTED ON1 HONDAY NIGHT, ARE THAT OUR PLAN FOR THE COMMUNITY
22 OR REGIONAL CENTER HERE AT RANCHO CUCAMONGA IS ONE OF A
23 MULTI—USE CENTER . NOT ONLY WILL OUR CENTER CONTAIN SIX
24 MAJOR DEPARTMENT STORES AND APPRO?:IMiATELY THE SAME SQUARE
25 FOOTAGE AS THE CENTER WHICH IS BEING PROPOSED BY HOMART
26 COMPANY, BUT WE HAVE A VERY GOOD TRACK: RECORD IN PROVIDING
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1 MULTI-USE CENTERS WHICH INCLUDE DAY CARE . WE HAVE THE ICE
2 CAPADES PEOPLE WHO HAVE AGREED TO GO INTO OUR CENTER . WE
3 HAVE MANY EXAMPLES OF REGIONAL CENTERS WHICH WE' VE PUT
4 IN COMMUNITY ROOMS . UNIVERSITY TOWN CENTER IS ONE . VIE
5 HAVE A MUSEUM DOWN AT UNIVERSITY TOWN CENTER . WE HAVE OVER
6 50, 000 SQUARE FEET OF UNIVERSITY `('OWN CENTER WHICH IS DEVOTE
7 TO COMMUNITY USES; AND IT' S ALSO THE UNIVERSITY TOWN CENTER,
8 AS AN EXAMPLE, IS ALSO CONNECTED TO SOME HOUSING WHICH IS
9 RIGHT NEXT TO IT IN A VERY SIMILAR MANNER TO WHAT WE ARE
10 PLANNING TO DO HERE ON THE VICTORIA SITE .
11 ONE OF THE THINGS WHICH MR. LEWIS ALLUDED
12 TO IS THAT TRAFFIC IS NOT A MAJOR CONSIDERATION . I DON` T
13 THINK THAT THIS IS EXACTLY TRUE . IN THE L.A. AREA, AS WELL
14 AS MOST OF SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA, A REGIONAL_ CENTER OF THIS
15 SIZE THAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT PRESENTLY WILL DRAW IN THE
16 NEIGHBORHOOD OF SIXTEEN MILLION VISITORS A YEAR. THE IMPACT
17 OF THAT ON LOCAL STREETS 15 MASSIVE, VERY MAJOR . I ALSO
18 CAN' T CONCUR ON THE STUDIES IN THAT THE TRADE AREA FOR THE
19 REGIONAL CENTER THAT WE ' RE TALKING ABOUT IS APPROXIMATELY A
20 MILLION PEOPLE; AND RANCHO CUCAMONGA, WHEN IT IS COMPLETELY
21 DEVELOPED, WILL HAVE BETWEEN ONE HUNDRED TWENTY AND ONE
22 HUNDRED FIFTY THOUSAND PEOPLE . WE BELIEVE THAT, FOR A
23 CENTER TO BE SUCCESSFUL OUT IN THIS AREA, THAT WE WANT TO
24 PUT IN A HIGH--LINE CENTER,, AND WE HAVE THE MIDLINE STORES
25 AS OUR PARTNERS PRESENTLY . MAY DEPARTMENT STORE COMPANY
26 IS A. PARTNER OF OURS, SO IS HAWLEY HALE AND THE BROADWAY .
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1 AND IN ADDITION TO THAT, WE ALSO HAVE COMMITMENTS FROM THE
2 WALKER SCOTT COMPANY OUT OF SAN DIEGO AND BUFFUMS OUT OF
3 LONG BEACH. MAJOR DEPARTMENT STORES ARE THE KEY TO BUILDING
2 4 ANY REGIONAL SHOPPING CENTER, AND THE FREEWAY VISIBILITY
S WHICH IS NECESSARY IS THE KEY TO WHY THE MAJOR DEPARTMENT
6 STORES, THUS FAR, HAVE COMMITTED TO OUR SIDE .
7 WE ARE PRESENTLY NEGOTIATING WITH ROBINSON' S
8 AND BULLOCK' S AND NORDSTROM' S AND TO BRING IN THE HIGH-LINE
9 MERCHANDISE WHICH IS PRESENTLY MISSING IN THE ENTIRE MARKET
10 AREA OF THE POMONA VALLEY. THE ONLY PLACE THAT YOU CAN GO
11 TO BUY HIGH--LINE GOODS IS DOWN TO SOUTH COAST PLAZA OR VERY
12 FAR TO THE WEST, AND IT' S A GOOD 45--MINUTE TO AN HOUR DRIVE
13 TO GET THESE HIGH-LINE GOODS . DUE TO THE FACT THAT A
14 HIGH-LIME STORE HAS TO GO IN WITH THE MIDLINE STORES OF MAY
15 COMPANY OR CARTER HAWLEY HALE OR BUFFUMS, IT SEEMS DIFFICULT
16 TO PUT TOGETHER A LOWER LINE WHICH IS SEARS AND PENNY ' S AND
17 SOME OF THE OTHER ONES . YOU CAN ' T BRING IN THE HIGH-LINE
18 STORES ON THAT TYPE. OF A BASE . AS A RESULT, WHAT YOU WOULD
19 BASICALLY HAVE IN A CENTER THAT DOESN' T HAVE A MAY COMPANY
20 OR BROADWAY IS A COPY, NOT IN FORM BUT IN MIX OF GOODS,
21 15 WHAT WE HAVE RIGHT DOWN THE ROAD ALL THE WAY ALONG
22 INTERSTATE 10 IN THE MONTCLAIR AREA. S0; WHAT WE ARE
23 PRESENTLY PROPOSING MAKES MORE SENSE FOR THE AREA AND WILL
24 DRAW THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHICH ARE NECESSARY TO MAKE IT
25 A SUCCESSFUL CENTER BOTH FOR THE CITY AND FOR THE DEVELOPER.
26 I ` D LIKE TO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE
18
1 SCHEDULE . I DON' T BELIEVE IT ' S POSSIBLE TO DEVELOP AND
2 BUILD A REGIONAL SHOPPING CENTER AND OPEN IT IN THE CITY
3 OF RANCHO CUCAMONGA FOR ANY DEVELOPER BEFORE 1984. E . I . R .
4 AND ZONING APPROVALS NORMALLY TAKE ABOUT A YEAR; AND NONE
5 OF US HAVE SUBMITTED OUR PROPOSALS YET, BUT WE ARE GETTING
6 READY TO . DRAWINGS WILL TAKE APPROXIMATELY A YEAR AND A
Z HALF TO PUT TOGETHER, AND CONSTRUCTION IS NORMALLY 15
8 MONTHS TO TWO YEARS; SO YOU CAN SEE IT' S GOING TO BE 1984
9 BEFORE ANYBODY IS GOING TO BE ABLE TO OPEN A REGIONAL
10 SHOPPING CENTER IN YOUR COMMUNITY . AND I WOULD SUBMIT THAT
11 IF ANYBODY CAN OPEN A REGIONAL SHOPPING CENTER IN 1984, IT
12 WILL PROBABLY BE THE HAHN COMPANY SINCE WE HAVE THE MAJOR
13 DEPARTMENT STORES ALREADY COMMITTED TO OUR PROJECT.
14 I GUESS THAT' S BASICALLY WHAT I HAVE TO
15 TELL YOU RIGHT NOW . IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, I ' LL BE
16 HAPPY TO ANSWER THEM.
17 MR. DAHL . I ' D LIKE TO ASK ONE QUESTION . YOU
18 MENTIONED THAT YOU ARE LOOKING TOWARD A POPULATION OR A
19 CUSTOMER LIST OF ABOUT SIXTEEN MILLION PEOPLE TO THIS
20 CENTER. I WOULD LIKE TO JUST STATE THAT I BELIEVE THAT
21 YOU ONLY HAVE A FEW CENTERS THAT EVER REACH THAT TYPE OF
22 CLIENTELE . I DON ' T THINK THAT THAT' S THE COMMONPLACE
23 EVEN FOR A CENTER THE SIZE OR MAGNITUDE THAT WE ARE LOOKING
24 A T.
25 MR . TARAHTON : THE SIZE OR MAGNITUDE THAT WE ARE
26 LOOKING AT RIGHT NOW, WHICH IS 1 . 2 TO 1 . 3 MILLION SQUARE
19
1 FEET WILL DRAW IN THE AREA OF A MILLION PEOPLE OR -- EXCUSE
2 ME, SIXTEEN MILLION PEOPLE IN A TRADE AREA THAT IS A
3 MILLION PEOPLE .
4 YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT WHAT WE PRESENTLY
S HAVE RIGHT NOW IN THIS AREA IS VERY SIMILAR CENTERS . THEY
6 ALL HAVE A PENNY ` S OR SEARS OR WARDS . VERY FEW OF THEM
7 HAVE HIGH--LINE STORES, AND WE ' RE TALKING ABOUT DRAWING
8 CUSTOMERS TO THIS CENTER BY HAVING THOSE HIGH-LINE STORES,
9 THOSE OTHER GOODS THAT YOU CAN ' T GET, A FULL SPECTRUM OF
10 GOODS . THAT BASE HAS TO BE BUILT ON YOUR MID--LINE MERCHAN-
11 DISE, WHICH IS, OF COURSE, MAY COMPANY AND BROADWAY . AND
12 PUENTE HILLS, FOR INSTANCE, IN 1978 HAD SIXTEEN MILLION
13 VISITORS TO IT . FOX HILLS, I KNOW, DOES MUCH MORE THAN
14 THAT . THAT` S ANOTHER ONE OF OUR MALLS .
18 I THINK YOU WILL FIND A CENTER OF THIS
16 MAGNITUDE WILL HAVE SIXTEEN MILLION PEOPLE EVERY YEAR
17 VISITING IT.
18 MR . REMPEL : ANY OTHER QUESTIONS?
19 (NO RESPONSE . )
20 MR. REMPEL : THANK YOU .
21 MR. FRYE : DO YOU WANT ME TO GIVE MY NAME?
22 MR . REMPEL : I THINK YOU HAD BETTER . THE SECRETARY
23 WHO IS HERE TONIGHT DOES NOT KNOW IT.
24 MR . FRYE : GARY FRYE, WILLIAM LYON COMPANY,
25 NEWPORT BEACH .
26 1 WOULD JUST LIKE TO COVER A COUPLE POINTS .
20
1 FIRST, I THINK THE NUMBER ONE THING THAT WE ARE ALL TALKING
2 ABOUT IS THAT THE CITY OF RANCHO CUCAMONGA HAS DECIDED THAT
3 014E OF ITS KEY GOALS AND PRIORITIES IS TO SECURE A REGIONAL
4 SHOPPING CENTER FOR THE CITY . I DON' T NEED TO GO OVER THE
5 LIST OF THE REASONS WHY THAT BENEFITS THE CITY, BECAUSE YOU
6 ALL KNOW THESE AS WELL AS MYSELF. BUT I BELIEVE THAT IS
7 THE OVERWHELMING PRIORITY, THAT, IF IT CAN BE ACCOMPLISHED,
8 WILL MEAN MORE TO THE CITY IN MY MIND THAN MANY OTHER GOALS .
9 AND IF THAT REGIONAL CAN BE SECURED, CAN BE BUILT, DILL
10 PROVIDE FUNDS SUCH THAT THE CITY WILL FIND IT MUCH EASIER
11 TO ACCOMPLISH MANY OTHER GOALS THAT ARE IMPORTANT BUT NOT
12 OF SUCH OVERWHELMING SIGNIFICANCE FINANCIALLY TO THE CITY
13 AS THE REGIONAL CENTER. WHAT IMPRESSES ME IS THAT, I THINK,
14 A REGIONAL HAS TO BE A REGIONAL . IT CAN ' T BE A SUBREGIONAL .
15 IT CAN ' T BE A WATERED-DOWN REGIONAL. IF YOU ARE GOING TO
16 HAVE A SUCCESSFUL, STRONG REGIONAL, YOU HAVE TO PICK A
17 SITE THAT WILL PRODUCE THESE KINDS OF RESULTS . AND YOU
18 CANNOT PICK A SECONDARY SITE AND, IN MY MIND, EXPECT TO
19 COMPETE FAVORABLY IN A REGIONAL MARKET WHICH INCLUDES, AS
20 JAY INDICATED, A MARKET AREA COMPRISING MILLIONS OF PEOPLE .
21 AND VJE- ARE TALKING COMMUNITIES OF SIGNIFICANT NUMBERS OF
22 MINUTES -- 15 TO 30 MINUTES . THERE' S AN OLD REAL ESTATE
23 SAYING THAT SAYS IN REAL ESTATE , IF YOU WANT TO BE SUCCESS-
24 FUL, THERE ' S THREE KEYS : LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION.
25 THAT JUST CANNOT BE OVEREMPHASIZED.
26 OBVIOUSLY, WE FEEL THAT OUR SITE, WITH
21
1 FREEWAY VISIBILITY AND ORIENTATION TO THE ,`MASS MARKET IN
2 THE WEST SAN BERNARDINO COUNTY, OFFERS THE CITY THE ASSURANCE
3 OF THE STRONGEST SITE AND COMPETING WITHIN THE VALLEY FOR
4 REGIONAL SHOPPING CENTER BUSINESS .
5 I WOULD LIKE TO JUST RESPOND BRIEFLY TO THE
6 COMMENT ON FLOOD CONTROL . WE HAVE STUDIED THAT . WE DO
7 NOT SEE A PROBLEM IN RESOLVING THE FLOOD CONTROL ISSUE, AND
S We DO NOT SEE THAT AS A TIME CONSTRAINT OF MOVING AHEAD ON
9 THE REGIONAL . WE ' D STUDIED THAT . WE ' VE MET WITH THE COUNTY .
10 THEY CONCUR WITH OUR RESULTS, AND THAT WOULD NATURALLY BE
11 FORTHCOMING WITH SITE PLANS IN THE FORMALITIES ONCE A
12 REGIONAL PROPOSAL WERE BEFORE YOU.
13 I THINK THAT WOULD CONCLUDE MY COMMENTS .
14 I ' LL ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS, IF YOU HAVE ANY . THANK YOU.
15 MR. HULINA: MY NAME IS DICK HULINA, HOMART
16 DEVELOPMENT COMPANY . I ' M THE PROJECT DIRECTOR FOR TERRA
17 VISTA MALL.
18 I FEEL THAT THERE ARE SO MANY MISREPRESEN-
19 TATIONS MADE BY MR. TARANTON THAT THEY NEED TO BE ANSWERED.
20 I DIDN ' T PLAN, REALLY, TO BE ON THE PROGRAM, BUT I NEED TO
21 ANSWER SOME OF THE THINGS THAT WERE STATED .
22 FIRST OF ALL, IN MAKING A FEW NOTES ON WHAT
23 WE SAID, JUST AS A MATTER OF INFORMATION, MIKE KERSY, WHO HAS
24 THE ICE CAPADES AND WAS PART OF THE PRESENTATION MONDAY
25 NIGHT, ALSO IS THE BRED, MALL ICE DIRECTOR THERE . SO Ill=
26 HAVE THE SAME -- WE USE THE SAME PEOPLE AS MR. HAHN HAD
22
1 MENTIONED.
2 SECONDLY, AS PART OF THE TOWN CENTER IN
3 SAN DIEGO, MR. TARANTON SAID THERE IS A MUSEUM. I WOULD
4 JUST LIKE TO BRING OUT A FEW THINGS . AS PART OF THE TOWN
5 CENTER AT BREA, THERE' S A THEATER PLAYHOUSE, A GALLERY,
6 T . V. STUDIO, GALLERY AND MEETING ROOMS, AND VARIOUS OTHER
7 TYPES OF COMMUNITY SERVICES . THAT' S THE SAME TYPE OF THING
8 THAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT. IN DISCUSSING THE TRADING AREA
9 OF ONE MILLION PEOPLE, I TOOK OUT THE CALDWELL CANKER MAP
10 OF LOS ANGELES TODAY AND IT LISTS IN THE LOS ,ANGELES AREA
11 WITH ABOUT SEVEN MILLION PEOPLE, 58 EXISTING REGIONAL
12 SHOPPING CENTERS AND 11 PROPOSED REGIONAL CENTERS, NOT
13 INCLUDING SOME 41 COMMUNITY CENTERS SUCH AS FONTANA SQUARE
14 WHERE THERE MAY BE ONE DEPARTMENT STORE OR FREE STANDING.
15 I RAISE THE ISSUE THAT, IF IN FACT YOU ARE
16 GOING TO HAVE fi TRADE AREA OF ONE MILLION PEOPLE, I WOULD
17 LIKE TO KNOW WHAT THE OTHER 58 EXISTING SHOPPING CENTERS
18 ARE GOING TO DRAM . IT JUST DOES NOT MAKE GOOD LOGICAL
19 SENSE , AND FROM A DEVELOPER WHO HAS LOOKED AT AND DEVELOPS
20 37 REGIONAL MALLS, AND FROM! THE DEPARTMENT STORES THAT GO
21 INTO THE REGIONAL MALLS, A POPULATION TRADE AREA BETWEEN
22 300, 350, 000 IS EXTREMELY ACCEPTABLE AND REALISTIC TRADE
23 AREA. AND THAT IS WHAT WE HAD DISCUSSED THE OTHER EVENING .
24 ANOTHER COMMENT ABOUT THE DEPARTMENT STORES
25 THAT HAS TO BE BADE, AND I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE KNOWN, AND
26 PARTICULARLY THE COMMENT THAT WAS MADE BY MR. TARANTON THAT
23
1 SOME OF THE HAHN CENTERS THAT ARE EXISTING AND PLANNED
2 TODAY CERTAINLY HAVE WHAT HE REFERRED TO AS LOW--LINE, WHAT
3 WE REFER TO AS MASS MERCHANT --- A WARDS AND BULLOCKS, FOR
4 EXAMPLE . THE PALM DESERT CENTER THAT IS BEING PLANNED,
5 IT WAS ANNOUNCED THIS WEEK IN THE NEWSPAPERS, MONTGOMERY
6 WARDS AND BULLOCK ' S WERE PART OF THAT CENTER. THERE ARE
7 OTHER CENTERS IN SAN DIEGO, THERE IS THE CENTER HERE IN
8 L .A. WHERE THERE IS A MASS MERCHANT SUCH AS A SEARS, A
9 WARDS, OR PL=NNY ' S, WHICH ARE VERY VITAL TO A SHOPPING
10 CENTER. AND THEY ARE ALSO WITH A VERY HIGH--LINE DEPARTMENT
11 STORE . I WOULD LIKE TO REFERENCE A PROJECT WHICH HOMART
12 DEVELOPMENT HAS IN CHICAGO WHICH IS NORTHBROOK COURT. IT
13 CONSISTS OF NEIMAN-MARCUS, I . MAGNIN, GORDON TAYLOR, SEARS
14 ROBUCK, AND IS ONE OF THE MOST SUCCESSFUL CENTERS WE HAVE .
15 SO THERE IS A GOOD BLENDING OF MASS MERCHANTS WITH HIGH-
16 LINE MERCHANTS .
17 THE ISSUE. OF DEPARTMENT STORES HAS TO BE
18 ADDRESSED, BECAUSE I THINK IF YOU LOOK AT RANCHO CUCAMONGA
19 IN THIS MARKET, WE ARE VERY PRIVILEGED TO HAVE 12 POSSIBLE
20 DEPARTMENT STORES WHO COULD SERVE AS THE SIX MAJOR TENANTS
21 THAT BOTH MR. HAHN AND HOMART ARE PROPOSING TO HAVE FOR
22 THE CENTER. AND THEY BREAK DOWN AS THE MASS MERCHANTS,
23 SUCH AS SEARS, PENNY ' S, AND WARDS; THE HIGH-LINE STORES,
24 AS BULLOCKS, ROBINSON' S, NORDSTROM' S THE POPULAR LOCAL
25 DEPARTMENT STORES, SUCH AS MAY AND BROADWAY; PLUS OTHERS
26 SUCH AS BUFFUMS, WARDS, r•'IERVYN' S AND WALKER SCOTT . AND
24
1 THE ISSUE AT THIS POINT IS NOT WHO GOES OUT AND SIGNS UP
2 THE DEPARTMENT STORES . THE ISSUE IS WHAT ARE THE VEST SIX
3 DEPARTMENT STORES FOR RANCHO CUCAMONGA? THE CENTER WILL NOT
4 OPEN BEFORE THE FALL OF 1983 OR POSSIBLY THE SPRING OF ' 84 -
5 4gHICH IS WHAT WE HAVE PLANNED, THE FALL OF ' 83 OR SPRING OF
6 ' 84 -- AND AS SUCH, THAT 15 THREE AND A HALF TO FOUR YEARS
7 AWAY . AND I WOULD HAVE TO SAY THAT, IN LOOKING AT THE FOUR
8 COMMITMENTS THAT MR. HAHN HAS RIGHT NOW IN BROADWAY, MAY,
9 BUFFUMS AND WALKED. SCOTT, HE ONLY HAS TWO POSSIBLE DEPARTMEN
10 STORES LEFT. AND IF YOU LOOT: AT MR. HAHN ' S CENTERS, ALL OF
11 HIS CENTERS -- AND HE ' S DEVELOPED VERY MANY OF THEM, SOME
12 OF WHICH WERE A JOINT VENTURE PARTNERSHIP ---- THE MASS MER-
13 CHANT IS ONE OF THE MOST CRITICAL, KEY ITEMS IN THE CENTER .
14 AND I THINK YOU' LL FIND A SEARS, WARDS, OR PENNY ' S IN ALMOST
15 EVERY ONE OF HIS CENTEP.S . AND CERTAINLY THAT MASS MERCHANT
16 APPEAL IS NEEDED IN A SHOPPING CENTER. AND IF YOU COUNT
17 THAT THERE. MAY BE ONE MASS MERCHANT, THAT ONLY LEAVES ONE
18 POSSIBLE HIGH-LINE STORE LEFT FOR A SHOPPING CENTER .
19 I WOULD LIKE TO REFERENCE THAT IF YOU GO TO
20 BREA MALL, YOU WILL FIND A NORDSTROM' S DEPARTMENT STORE;
21 IF YOU GO TO WEST COVINA YOU WILL FIND BULLOCI: ' S DEPARTMENT
22 STORE . YOU DON ' T NEED TO DRIVE AN HOUR, HOUR AND 15 MINUTES,
23 TO FIND THESE TYPES OF STORES, AND THEY CAN BE PUT TOGETHER
24 IN A MALL IN RANCHO CUCAMONGA, AND THE IMPORTANT THING 15
25 THAT WE GET THE SIX BEST DEPARTMENT STORES THAT ARE AVAILABLE .
26 AND STARTING WITH THE WORLD ' S LARGEST RETAILED. AND BUILDING
25
1 FROI,4 THERE, YOU DO HAVE ROOM TO PUT SOME OF THOSE OTHER HIGH
2 LINE DEPARTMENT STORES IN THERE . AND I MUST SAY THAT WE
3 HAVE NEGOTIATED WITH ALL THE DEPARTMENT STORES I HAVE
4 MENTIONED . WE ARE HAVING NEGOTIATIONS WITH ALL OF THE
5 ,-SIGH-LINE DEPARTMENT STORES . AT THIS POINT, THEY ARE TOTALL
6 UNCOMMITTED, AND I `M SURE THAT THEY ARE REMAINING NEUTRAL AT
7 THIS POINT . SO, MY ONLY POINT IS THAT WE HAVE THE OPPOR--
8 TUNITY TO BRING AT LEAST TWO OF THESE DEPARTMENT STORES AND
9 POSSIBLY THREE, DEPENDING ON THE MIX; WHEREAS MR. HAHN
10 ALREADY HAS FOUR COMMITMENTS AND CANNOT BRING ANY OF THOSE
11 IN .
12 THE OTHER THING I ' D LIKE TO MENTION IS THAT
13 HE MENTIONED THERE WERE. FOUR DEPARTMENT STORES IN THE FIRST
14 PHASE, AND WITH THE TWO FOLLOWING -- AND IT SEEMS HE ' S GOT
15 HIS FOUR DEPARTMENT STORES COMMITTED -- THEY ARE NOT HIGH-
16 LINE DEPARTMENT STORES, THEY ARE NOT MASS MERCHANT DEPARTMEi
17 STORES; AND I CAN ' T OVEREMPHASIZE THE IMPORTANCE OF A SUC-
18 CESSFUL CENTER . AND WHAT REALLY THE !THOLE ISSUE BOILS DO1gN
19 TO, DO YOU :;'ANT YOUR CENTER TO SERVE THE LOCAL COMMUNITY AS
20 WELL AS THE OTHER TRADING AREA, WHICH IS MORE REALISTICALLY
21 PUT AT 350, 000, OR ARE YOU LOOKING TO SERVE OTHER COMMUNITIES ?
22 THANIC YOU.
23 MR . TOLSTOY : I HAVE ONE QUESTIOIN. III THE MAP
24 WHAT YOU PUT INTO -- YOUR SHOPPING AREA, AND THIS BLUE LINE
25 REPRESENTS THE PRIMARY SHOPPING AREA --
26 MR . FRYE : THE CORE AREA WHICH MEANS THAT ' S THE
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27
1 THAT WAS ANOTHER REASON WE STATED THE OTHER EVENING THAT IF
2 YOU DRAW A FIVE-MILE RADIUS AROUND OUR CENTER AND FIVE-
3 MILE RADIUS AROUND THE HAHN CENTER, THERE IS CONSIDERABLE
4 DIFFERENCE IN WHAT FALLS WITHIN THE POPULATION.
5 AND ONE FURTHER COMMENT THAT WAS MADE, THE
6 VISIBILITY IS VERY IMPORTANT . I WOULD JUST LIKE TO BRING
7 UP THE FACT THAT AS YOU ARE DRIVING UP THE FREEWAY AND SEE
8 THE BEAUTIFUL VICTORIA CENTER AND YOU TURN THE OTHER WAY,
9 YOU ALSO SEE SOMETHING THAT ISN' T QUITE AS BEAUTIFUL . AND
10 BELIEVE ME, THE DEPARTMENT STORES THAT WE HAVE TALKED TO
11 HAVE INDICATED THAT THEY ARE VERY CONCERNED ABOUT THAT,
12 PARTICULARLY THE HIGH-LINE FASHION DEPARTMENT STORES . AND
13 WE HAVE HAD REPEATED PREFERENCES SHOWN FOR OUR SITE, AND
14 I WOULD JUST LIKE THAT POINT TO BE MADE KNOWN TO YOU .
15 MR . REMPEL : ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS?
16 MR , FRYE : THE POINT SHOULD BE MADE THAT THE
17 CENTER SUCH AS PALM DESERT IS FOUR MILES FROM THE FREEWAY,
18 AND THERE ARE MiANY MANY OTHEf? CENTERS THAT MR . HAHN HAS
19 DEVELOPED THAT HAVE THAT SAME IDEA.
20 MR. REMPEL : I THINK, MYSELF, THAT WE ' RE DWELLIN
21 A LITTLE TOO MUCH ON THE FACT OF WHO IS GOING TO BE IN THE
22 CENTER. I THINK' BOTH HOMART AND HAHN ARE GOING TO HAVE
23 PROBABLY EQUAL STORES REPRESENTED IN TIME CENTERS . I DON' T
24 THINK THAT' S THE REAL ISSUE. HERE TONIGHT . I THINK THAT
25 THE ISSUE HERE T0NIGHT IS THE AVAILABILITY OF THE CENTER,
26 THE TRAFFIC AT THE CE11TER, AND THE FEASIBILITY G E!3ERALLY
28
1 OF THAT CENTER AS IT APPLIES TO THE CITY IN ITS FUTURE
2 GENERAL PLAN. N0NE OF OUR DECISIONS HERE TONIGHT ARE GOIN
3 TO PRECLUDE -- IN OTHER WORDS, THEY ARE NOT GOING TO SAY
4 ONE CENTER 14EVER CAN GO IN AT THIS POINT, YET% BUT IT IS
5 SAYING THAT WE FEEL THE COMMISSION IS GOING TO HAVE TO MAKE
6 A DECISION WHICH ONE IS THE MORE VIABLE FOR THE TOTAL
7 BENEFIT OF THE COMMUNITY, NOT JUST THE SHOPPING BENEFIT.
8 IT MAY BE THE TRAFFIC BENEFIT THAT IS THE FACTOR, AND I
9 DON ' T THINK THAT GETTING INTO A LONG ARGUMENT HERE ABOUT
10 WHICH STORE IS GOING TO BE IN THERE, I DON ' T THINK THAT
11 REALLY IS A FACTOR.
12 MR . FRYE : MR. CHAIRMAN, IF I MAY JUST SAY
13 SOMETHING. THE KEY TO A SUCCESSFUL REGIONAL SHOPPING
14 CENTER THAT BRINGS THE MAXIMUM GROSS SALES TAX TO THE
15 COMMUNITY IS WHAT MAKES UP THAT CENTER . WHAT MAKES UP
16 THE CENTER IS NOT WHAT ' S BETWEEN THE DEPARTMENT STORES,
17 BECAUSE ANY GOOD DEVELOPER CAN PUT GOOD TENANTS III€ A
18 SHOPPING CENTER. WHAT REALLY MAKES A CENTER ARE WHO HIS
19 ANCHORS ARE. AND IF YOU COMPARE SOUTH COAST PLAZA, FOR
20 EXAMPLE, WITH THE ANCHORS THEY HAVE TO MANY OF THE OTHER
21 SHOPPING CENTERS IN THE LOS ANGELES AREA, THE REASON THAT
22 THAT CENTER IS SO DYNAMIC IS BECAUSE OF THE TREMENDOUS
23 MAJORS THAT IT HAS . AND MY POINT IS THAT MR . HAHN HAS
24 COMMITMENTS WITH FOUR DEPARTMENT STORES THAT HAS LEFT OUT
25 EITHER THE MASS MERCHANTS AND THE HIGH--LINE DEPARTMENT
26 STORES, AND THERE ARE ONLY TWO SLOTS LEFT. SO, I WOULD
29
1 LIKE YOU TO CONSIDER THAT POINT . THANK YOU .
2 MR. REMPEL : JUST A COUPLE MINUTES .
3 MR. TARANTON : I ' LL MAKE IT VERY SHORT .
4 MR. REMPEL : I THINK, AS I SAID BEFORE, I DON 'T
5 WANT TO GET INTO AN ARGUMENT BETWEEN THE TWO CENTERS .
6 MR. TARANTON : I DON' T WANT TO ARGUE .
7 WHEN THE HAHN COMPANY WAS LOOKING FOR A
8 SITE, WE TOOL: A LOOK AT NUMEROUS SITES IN THE POMONA
9 VALLEY AREA. WE WERE TRYING TO FIND THE RIGHT SITE WITH
10 THE RIGHT LOCATION, AND WE SETTLED ON THIS PARTICULAR
11 SITE THAT WE ARE ON DUE TO THE FACT THAT -- AND WE DID
12 LOOK AT THE LEWIS PROPERTY AT THE TIME --- BECAUSE IT IS
13 THE RIGHT SITE AND IT IS THE RIGHT SITE FOR THE MAJOR
14 DEPARTMENT STORES , ALL I CAN SAY IS MY ESTEEMED COLLEAGUE
16 IS CORRECT. THE MAJOR DEPARTMENT STORES ARE THE I<EY TO
16 ANY REGIONAL SHOPPING CENTER. THE FACT THAT WE HAVE SOME
17 AND THEY DON ' T AT THE PRESENT TIME INDICATES WHAT THE SITE
18 -- WHICH SITE IS THE BETTER SITE FROM Tf IE VIEW OF THE
19 MAJOR DEPARTMENT STORES .
20 I THINK I ' LL JUS T' LEAVE IT AT THAT.
21 MR. FRYE : MR, CHAIRMAN, I ' D JUST LIKE TO SAY
22 THAT' S REALLY NOT THE ISSUE AT ALL.
23 MR . REMPE L : THIS IS EXACTLY 4:+HAT I DON ' T GIANT,
24 YOU TWO GENTLEMEN JUMPING UP AT EACH OTHER AND REBUTTING
25 EACH OTHER ' S DISCUSSION .
26 ARE THERE ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS, GENTLEMEN
30
1 OF THE PRESENTATION?
2 (NO RESPONSE . )
3 MR. REMPEL : IF NOT, THEN I ' M GOING TO ASK IF
4 THERE IS ANYONE IN THE AUDIENCE THAT WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK .
5 MR. SCERANKA: MR. CHAIRMAN, MY NAME IS JEFF
6 SCERANKA. I ' M CHAIRMAN OF THE CITIZENS ADVISORY COMMITTEE
7 ON THE GENERAL PLAN.
8 I ' D LIKE TO MAKE A FEW COMMENTS AS TO TIME
9 DEPTHS AND TYPES OF DISCUSSIONS THAT WEtVE HAD ON THIS
10 SUBJECT OF A REGIONAL CENTER, AND I ' D ALSO LIKE TO DISCUSS
11 SOME OF THE CONCLUSIONS THAT THE COMMITTEE HAS COME TO.
12 IT IS EXTREMELY DIFFICULT TO GO THROUGH
13 THE PROCESS OF DOING A GENERAL PLAN WITHOUT FOCUSSING IN
14 ON WHAT THE IMPACT OF A REGIONAL CENTER WILL HAVE ON A
15 COMMUNITY . WHAT WE ' VE LOOKED AT, BASICALLY, ARE THREE
i6 COMPONENTS . ONE IS THE FOCUS OF THE COMMUNITY; ANOTHER
17 IS THE TRAFFIC CONSEQUENCES OF A REGIONAL CENTER; AND
18 ANOTHER IS THE UTILITY OR USEFULNESS OF A REGIONAL CENTER
19 TO OUR COMMUN11 TY .
20 IN TERMS OF THE FOCUS OF OUR COMMUNITY,
21 WE HAD TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF DISCUSSION AS TO WHAT OUR
22 COMMUNITY REPRESENTS TO THOSE CITIZENS WHO LIVE IN IT
23 TODAY . WE DO NOT FEEL THAT IT' S ADEQUATE TO TALK ABOUT
24 THE FOCUS OF A COMMUNITY BEING A REGIONAL SHOPPING CENTER.
25 RANCHO CUCAMONGA HAS REPRESENTED TO THOSE CITIZENS WHO
26 LIVE IN IT A RURAL CHARACTER IN AN AREA WHERE PEOPLE CAN
31
1 COME TO. THEY ARE NOT INSIDE OF A CITY AND SUFFERING THE
2 CONSEQUENCES OF BEING INSIDE OF A LARGELY POPULATED,
3 DENSE TRAFFIC KIND OF SITUATION TO WHERE YOU ARE LOOKING
4 AT MOSTLY BUILDINGS .
3 5 ALSO, THE CONCEPT OF HAVING THE FOCUS OF
6 A COMMUNITY ON A FREEWAY IS NOT TO BE CONSIDERED AS ONE
7 OF THE POINTS THAT THE CITIZENS WOULD LIKE TO SEE . SO,
S IN TERMS OF LOOKING AT A FOCUS OF COMMUNITY AND WHERE THAT
9 SHOULD BE, MOST OF TIME DISCUSSION HAS SEEN THAT THE FOCUS
10 OF THE COMMUNITY SHOULD BE OIL FOOTHILL AND HAVEN NEAR THE
11 WINERY, AND THAT WOULD BE THE CHARACTER AND IDENTITY OF
12 OUR COMMUNITY TO THOSE OF US 4' HO LIVE IN THE COMMUNITY
13 AND WHO WORE: IN THE COMMUNITY AND THAT' S WHERE YOUR
14 SERVICES SHOULD BE PROVIDED FOR US .
15 THE SECOND THING I ' D LIKE TO MENTION
16 WOULD BE TRAFFIC . IN OUR DISCUSSIONS OF THE IMPACT OF
17 TRAFFIC ON OUR COMMUNITY, ONE OF THE BIGGEST CONCERNS
18 WAS THAT WE DO NOT WANT TO SEE FLOW--THROUGH TRAFFIC
19 GOING TO THE MAIN CENTRAL PART OF OUR COMMUNITY IN THE
20 FOCUS OF OUR COMMUNITY . WE DO NOT WANT THE RESIDENTIAL
21 AND SMALLER COMMERCIAL AREAS, AS WELL AS THE INDUSTRIAL
22 AREAS OF OUR CITY TO BE BURDENED WITH TRAFFIC OF A
23 REGIONAL TYPE Or USE WHERE PEOPLE ARE COMING IN AND MOVING
24 THROUGH OUR CITY . WE WOULD LIKE TO RESTRICT THE TRAFFIC
25 IN THE CITY AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE TO LOCAL TRAFFIC AND
26 ALLOW REGIONAL TO TAKE ITS TOLL ON THE PERIMETERS OF THE
32
1 COMMUNITY AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE .
2 IN TERMS OF THE UTILITY OR USEFULNESS OF
3 THE REGIONAL CENTER TO THE COMMUNITY, WE FEEL THAT IT' S
4 EXTREMELY IMPORTANT THAT WE RECOGNIZE THE FACT THAT A
S REGIONAL CENTER IS TO SERVE A REGION AND NOT JUST A CITY .
6 WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE THAT THE CITIZENS WITHIN THE COMMUNITY,
7 AS WELL AS THE CITIZENS OF THE WHOLE VALLEY, CAN TAKE
8 ADVA14TAGE OF THE REGIONAL CENTER. USEFULNESS TO THOSE
9 OF US WHO LIVE. HERE IS BASED UPON THE ABILITY WE HAVE TO
10 DO OUR SHOPPING LOCALLY . IF YOU LOOK AT AVAILABILITY,
11 WE NOW HAVE FOR REGIONAL SERVICES; WE DO NOT HAVE AS
12 MUCH AVAILABILITY AS WE WOULD LIKE TO. SO, IF YOU ARE
13 ASKING YOURSELVES A QUESTION, WHETHER OR NOT WE RANT A
14 REGIONAL CENTER IN RANCHO CUCA.MONGA, I WOULD SAY, YES,
15 WE DO . IF YOU ASK YOURSELVES THE QUESTION OF WHETHER OR
16 NOT WE WANT THE FOCUS OF THE COMMUNITY TO BE A REGIONAL
17 CENTER , I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT WE WANT THAT. IF YOU ASK
18 YOURSELVES WHAT 1<IND OF A CORE OR BASIS WE WANT FOR THE
19 CITY, THE COMMITTEE ALMOST UNANIMOUSLY FELT THAT THE
20 BASIS OF THE CITY SHOULD BE A DUAL NUCLEI , HAVING BOTH
21 THE REGIONAL CENTER AND CIVIC CENTER. SEPARATE FROM EACH
22 OTHER AND DISTINCT. THE OTHER MAIN EMPHASIS WOULD BE
23 THE TRAFFIC FLOW—THROUGH WOULD NOT GO T€-1ROUGH THE CITY
24 FOR REGIONAL SERVICE, BUT WOULD BE CARRIED ON THE
25 PERIf�sETER .
26 WE WOULD ALSO LIKE TO STRESS THAT WE DO
33
1 FEEL IT IS IMPORTANT TO RECOGNIZE THE ECONOMIC IMPACT ON
2 THE CITY . I DEFINITELY FEEL THAT THAT' S ONE OF THE MAIN
3 CRITERIA FOR THE PEOPLE OF THIS COMMUNITY TO LOOK AT A
4 REGIONAL CENTER AS A POSITIVE THING.
5 IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, I 'D BE GLAD TO
6 ANSWER THEM .
7 MR. GARCIA: MR. SCERANKA, I THINK I ' D LIKE TO
8 FOCUS ON THE ISSUE OF HOW THE COMMITTEE HAS ADDRESSED THE
9 ISSUE OF TRAFFIC FROM POTENTIAL SHOPPERS COMING FROM THE
10 NORTHWEST PORTION OF OUR CITY AND SURROUNDING COMMUNITIES .
11 IS THE ANTICIPATION THAT THEY WILL NOT GO THROUGH THE
12 CITY TO GET TO A POTENTIAL REGIONAL SHOPPING CENTER
13 LOCATED ON THE OUTSKIRTS OF THE COMMUNITY?
14 MR. SCERAN{KA: ONE OF THE DIFFICULTIES IN MAKING
15 THE DECISION ON THE IMPACT OF A REGIONAL CENTER IN TERMS
16 OF TRAFFIC IS NOT KNOWING WHETHER OR NOT THE FOOTHILL
17 CORRIDOR WILL BE RESERVED AND WHETHER OR NOT THAT WILL BE
18 A FREEWAY . CERTAINLY, IF THE FOOTHILL FREEWAY CORRIDOR
19 IS OBSERVED AND IS USED AS A FREEWAY, THEN REGIONAL
20 TRAFFIC WILL PROBABLY FLOW FROM THE NORTH, NORTHWEST ON
21 THE FOOTHILL FREEWAY TO THE REGIONAL CENTER REGARDLESS OF
22 1,IHERE IT IS . IF IT IS NOT RESERVED, THEN THE TRAFFIC
23 FROM THE NORTH AND NORTHWEST OF THE CITY IS GOING TO HAVE
24 TO TRAVEL ON OTHER ROUTES, AND THEY WILL DEFINITELY IMPACT
25
THE CITY .
26 MR. GARCIA: THANK YOU.
34
1 MR. REMPEL: MR. DAHL, DO YOU HAVE A QUESTION?
2 MR . DAHL : HE ANSWERED IT .
3 MR. SCERANKA: THANK YOU,
4 MR . REMPEL: ARE THERE OTHER THINGS?
5 YES?
6 MR . SEWASKY : MR. CHAIRMAN, STEVE SEWASKY . I
7 RESIDE AT 10445 CORDON DRIVE, HERE IN ALTA LOMA.
8 I COME TO YOU IN FAVOR OF THE HAVEN AVENUE
9 AND FOOTHILL LOCATION FOR THE REGIONAL CENTER AS PRESENTED
10 BY MR. LEWIS . IN THE PAST, PRIOR TO MY LIVING OUT HERE,
11 I SERVED ON MANY BOARDS SUCH AS YOURS; AND ONE THING THAT
12 I DON' T KNOW, I ASSUME YOUR PEOPLE ARE CONTEMPLATING
13 LIKEWISE, IS --- AND I HAVE HEARD A LOT OF TALI: OF TRAFFIC
14 -- IS THE CENTRAL CORE FOR THE CITY, TRYING TO DRAW OTHER
15 PEOPLE FROM OUTSIDE INTO THE CITY . I 'M NOT SAYING TO
16 DRAW THEM IN FOR LIVING PURPOSES OR ANYTHING LIKE THIS;
17 BUT BY HAVING A CENTER SUCH AS THIS AS YOUR CENTRAL CORE
18 AND BUILDING THE CITY AROUND IT, DRAWING PEOPLE INTO
19 THE CENTER OF THE CITY WHERE THIS S WOULD BE LOCATED, NOT
20 ONLY HELPS THE CITY ITSELF AS A CITY IN GENERAL, BUT IN
21 MY OWN OPINION, I THINK YOU' D LOOT: AT THE OTHER PEOPLE
22 IN THE CITY ITSELF, THE SMALL BUSINESSMAN IN THAT GENERAL
23 AREA ALONG FOOTHILL BOULEVARD, IN THAT GENERAL LOCATION .
24 I THINK YOU' D BE GIVING THEM ---- CONSIDERATION TO THEM
25 ALSO BY HAVING THIS AS A FOCAL POINT AND DRAWING THE
26 PEOPLE TO THE CENTER OF THE CITY . YOU ' D ALSO BE HELPING
35
1 THEM IN THEIR BUSINESS .
2 AS FAR AS TRAFFIC, I DON ' T SEE WHERE
3 TRAFFIC WOULD REALLY BE A PROBLEM, AND I LIVE IN THAT
4 GENERAL AREA, WHICH IS RIGHT AT THE INTERSECTION OF
5 BASELINE AND HAVEN . TRAFFICWISE, I DON' T THINK IT tKOULD
6 REALLY BE A PROBLEM. I ' VE HEARD A LOT OF PEOPLE TALK
7 ABOUT TRAFFIC COMING IN FROM OTHER AREAS, COMING THROUGH
B T0WN TO GET TO THIS . I 'M QUITE SURE IF I WAS A LA VERNE
9 RESIDENT OR A FONTANA RESIDENT, SOMETHING LIKE THAT, I
10 WOULDN ' T BE COMING DOWN THROUGH FOOTHILL OR THROUGH TOWN
11 TO GET TO THIS . THE MOST LOGICAL WAY TO COME WOULD BE THE
12 SAN BERNARDINO FREEWAY AND RIGHT UP HAVEN, A DIRECT ROUTE
13 TO THE CENTRAL CORE OR CENTRAL FOCUS IN THE CITY; AND AT
14 THE SAME TIME, THEY ARE CLOSE ENOUGH TO WHERE, IF THERE4S
15 A SMALL JEWELRY STORE DOWN THE STREET OR A SMALL INDEPEN-
16 DENT FLORIST WHO, AT THE SPUD. OF THE MOMENT THESE PEOPLE
17 FEEL THAT HEY, I CAN GET A BOUQUET OF FLOWERS OR I NEED
18 A PLANT FOR SOMEONE, IT' S RIGHT THERE . IT HELPS THE SMALL
19 PEOPLE AT THE SAME TIME .
20 THE OTHER DEVELOPMENT,' IF YOU WERE TO
21 LOCATE OUT THERE, 1 FEEL THAT WOULD BE A DETRIMENT TO
22 THE CITY BY DRAWIl'JG EVERYTHING OUT AWAY FROM THE CENTRAL
23 CORE AREA. I ` VE HEARD A LOT OF TALK THAT THIS OTHER SITE
24 FOR THIS CIVIC -- THIS SHOPPING AREA HAS TO BE NEAP, A
25 FREEWAY, OR AT LEAST PEOPLE HAVE SAID IT HAS TO BE NEAR
26 A FREEWAY TO DO ANY KIND OF BUSINESS . I DISAGREE WITH
3 6'
1 THAT. LIVING IN THE AREA, AND I ' VE USED THE DEVORE FREEWAY
2 QUITE OFTEN !MYSELF FOR ONE PURPOSE AND ONE PURPOSE ONLY .
3 I SEE A LOT OF TRUCKS UP THERE, YES . OTHER THAN THAT,
4 I THINK IF YOU HAVE EVER SAT OUT THERE AND CHECKED THE
5 CARS GOING BY, THERE IS ONE PLACE THAT THESE CARS ARE
6 GOING, AND THAT' S OUT TOWARDS VEGAS AND BACK . I KNOW
7 MYSELF, IF I ' ll HEADING FOR VEGAS, I ' M NOT GOING TO WANT
8 TO STOP AT A SHOPPING CENTER AND CERTAINLY, I KNOW IN THE
9 PAST, COMING BACK, YOU DON' T HAVE THE MONEY TO STOP ON
10 THE WAY BACK EITHER . SO, WHAT AM I GOING TO BUY AT A
11 PLACE LIKE THAT? IF IT' S IN THE CENTRAL CORE AND YOU
12 BUILD YOUR ENTIRE CITY AROUND THIS, I THINK YOU ' LL FIND
13 OUT THAT, IN THE END, IN THE LONG RUN, THE CITY OF RANCHO
14 CUCAMONGA IS GOING TO BE MUCH BETTER OFF.
15 THANK YOU.
16 MR. LEWIS : I SHOULD TELL YOU THAT STEVE WORKS
17 FOR US, BUT THAT ' S HIS OWN VIEW .
18 MR . SEWASKY : I 'M MERE AS A RESIDE?SIT .
19 MR . REMPEL : ARE THERE ANY OTHERS WHO WISH TO
20 SPEAK?
21 YES?
22 MIS . SIMPSON : I ' M BETTY SIMPSON, AND ITM NOT
23 A PUBLIC SPEAKER SO I MADE A FEW NOTES . BUT I NOTICED
24 SOME OF THE SPEAKERS DID, SO THAT' S OKAY . I DIDN ' T WANT
25 TO GET UP HERE AND GET STAGE-STRUCK AND FORGET WHAT I
26 WANTED TO SAY .
37
1 E'ER. LEWIS : BETTY, TELL THEM WHO YOU WORK FOR,
2 MS . SIMPSON : I WORK FOR LEWIS HOMES . I ' M A
3 SECRETARY THERE . I CAN STATE HE HAVE A WELL-EARNED
4 REPUTATION OF INTEGRITY AND PROVIDE QUALITY PROJECTS . BUT
5 I DIDN' T COME HERE TO BRAG ON OUR COMPANY .
6 I FEEL THAT, AS A CONCERNED CITIZEN OF
7 SAN BERNARDINO COUNTY AND AS A POTENTIAL RANCHO CUCAMONGA
8 RESIDENT, THAT I SHOULD TAKE THIS OPPORTUNITY TO VOICE
9 MY OPINION. AND I THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY .
10 AS I UNDERSTAND, YOU HAVE THE RESPONSIBILITY
11 OF MAKING A DECISION ON A SHOPPING CENTER SITE THAT WILL
12 AFFECT ME. RIGHT NOW I LIVE Ii\1 RIVERSIDE IN THE INDIAN
13 HILLS AREA AND I WORK' IN UPLAND; SO YOUR DECISION DOES
14 DIRECTLY AFFECT ME . IT ALSO AFFECTS MY POCKETBOOK. I ' M
15 A WORKING WOMAN AND A HOUSEWIFE, BUYING GAS TO GET TO WORK
16 AND BUYING GROCERIES . NEEDLESS TO SAY, THE GAS SITUATION
17 IS MAKING CHICKEN OF THE SEA OUR ENTREE; BUT I ALSO, OUT
18 OF PLEASURE AND NECESSITY, HAVE TO SHOP . I USED TO GO
19 HOME FROM WORK, JUMP IN THE CAR, AND TAKE OFF FOR THE
20 TYLER MALL . BECAUSE OF THE GAS SITUATION, I NOW WALK
21 DURING MY LUNCH HOUR AND SHOP, AND ON THE WAY HOME, I STOP
22 AT THE STRIP CENTERS OR THE LITTLE SHOPS SO THAT I DON' T
23 HAVE TO HASTE THE GAS TO GO TO THE MALL AND BACK TO THE
24 HOUSE AGAIN .
25 WHAT I ' M TRYING TO SAY IS THAT I AM LOOKING
26 FORWARD TO LIVING IN RANCHO CUCAMONGA AND LATER WORKING IN
38
1 RANCHO CUCAMONGA, AND I FEEL THAT A SHOPPING CENTER THAT' S
2 CONVENIENT TO ME AS A RESIDENT AND AS A PERSON THAT WORKS
3 HERE SHOULD BE GIVEN CONSIDERATION BY YOU. AND I CERTAINLY
4 HOPE THAT MY CITY COUNCIL AND MY PLANNING COMMISSION HAS
5 THE TRUE CONCERN AND INTEREST FOR ME AS A RESIDENT OF
6 RANCHO CUCAMONGA.
7 THANK YOU.
8 MR . REMPEL : ARE THERE OTHERS?
9 THE GENTLEMAN IN THE BACK FIRST .
10 MR. LA ARGO : JOHN LA ARGO, 7111 ELMHURST.
11 I ' M NOT SURE IF THIS IS APPROPRIATE AT
12 THIS TIME OR NOT, BUT BOTH OF THESE PROPOSALS ARE GOING
13 TO BENEFIT ONE INDIVIDUAL OR ANOTHER OR A GROUP OF
14 INDIVIDUALS . WHAT WILL THE CITY BENEFIT FROM THIS?
15 I NOTICED THAT SOME OF THESE PLANS HAVE THE
16 CITY HALL, CITY FACILITIES LOCATED CLOSE BY OR NEAR THE.
17 SHOPPING CEl',1TERS . IS THIS LAND GOING TO BE DEDICATED TO
18 THE CITY BY THE INDIVIDUAL WHOSE PLANS ARE APPROVED, OR
19 IS THE CITY GOING TO HAVE TO ACQUIRE THIS BY BUYING OR
20 WHAT? I DON ' T EVEN KNOW IF THIS IS SOMETHING THAT THE
21 PLANNING COMMISSION CAN CONSIDER] BUT IF ONE OF THESE
22 INDIVIDUALS WAFTS TO; AS A PART OF THEIR PROJECT, DONATE
23 LAND TO THE CITY FOR US TO BE USED FOR THESE CIVIC BUILDIN S,
24 I THINK THIS MIGHT BE CONSIDERED.
25 MR . HOPSON : LET ME ADDRESS THAT . THE CITY
26 CANNOT REQUIRE LEGALLY A DEVELOPER TO DONATE A CIVIC
39
1 CENTER . IF WE COULD, WE WOULD HAVE FOUND A WAY TO DO IT
2 BY NOW. THERE ARE, AND MANY DEVELOPERS DON' T BELIEVE IT,
3 BUT THERE ARE LEGAL LIMITS ON WHAT THE CITY CAN REQUIRE IN
4 TERMS OF DEDICATION . I HAVE LOOKED IN ALL OF THE MATERIAL
5 THAT THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA FURNISHES CITIES FOR SOME
6 INDICATION THAT WE CAN CONSIDER A GIFT FROM A DEVELOPER AS
7 A PART OF OUR CONSIDERATION, AND I CAN 'T FIND ANYTHING IN
B TIHE STATE GUIDELINES THAT WE CAN DO SO . AS A CONSEQUENCE
9 OF WHETHER OR NOT YOU CAN LEGALLY CONSIDER THE PROMISE OF
10 A GIFT, ASIDE FROM WHETHER OR NOT WE WANT TO DO THAT
11 PROCEDURALLY -- I CAN ' T FIND ANY INDICATION THAT WE CAN.
12 IT FURTHER IS, I THINK, PERHAPS, A
13 QUESTIONABLE LEGAL PRECEDENT TO BASE YOUR DECISION ON THE
14 PROMISE OF SOMETHING THAT WE CAN' T LEGALLY COMPEL. I DON ' T
15 KNOW THAT THERE ' S ANY LAW THAT SAYS ONE WAY OR THE OTHER
16 THAT YOU CAN' T DO THAT, BUT IT WOULD TEND TO PUT A QUESTION
i7 OF WHAT FACTORS !•MOTIVATED YOU IN MAKING YOUR DETERMiINATION .
18 RECENT CASE LAW INDICATES THAT THE COURTS HAVE RULED
19 PEOPLE THAT ARE IN PUBLIC POSITIONS, MAKING DECISIONS FOR
20 CITIZENRY, HAVE TO BE BEYOND EVEN THE SUSPICION OF CON-
21 FLICT OF INTEREST OR REPROACH . WE TALKED A NUMBER OF
22 MONTHS AGO ABOUT THE CASE FROM LOS ANGELES WHERE THE
23 COURTS DECIDED THAT COUNCIL PEOPLE, IBELIEVE THAT WAS THE
24 BODY THAT WAS DEALT WITH, WHO HAVE RECEIVED CAMPAIGN
25 CONTRIBUTIONS FROM THE DEVELOPER IN QUESTION HAD TO EXCLUDE
26 THEMSELVES FROM DETERMINATION ON AN ISSUE AFFECTING THAT
40
1 DEVELOPER IN HIS DEVELOPMENT IN THE CITY . BY THE SAME
2 TOKEN, I THINK THAT THE CONSIDERATION OF A PROMISE OF
3 SOMETHING WHICH WE CAN' T COMPEL RAISES A QUESTION OVER
4 WHETHER YOUR DETERMINATIONS WERE BASED ON THAT PROMISE OR
5 WHETHER THEY WERE BASED ON THE MERITS OF THE PROJECT . AND
6 AS A CONSEQUENCE, THE CITY ATTORNEY ' S OFFICE 14OULD PREFER
7 THAT THE ISSUE OF WHETHER OR NOT THE PROPERTY IS DONATED
8 BY MR. LEWIS REMAINS SEPARATE AND APART FROM THE DETERMINA-
9 TIO14 BETWEEN THE TWO CENTERS .
10 NATURALLY, THE CITY IS INTERESTED AT ANY
11 TIME IF MR . LEWIS IS INTERESTED IN MAKING THAT GIFT, BUT
12 TO MAKE THE CITY ' S APPROVAL OF ITS PROJECT WITH THE PROMISE
13 OF THAT GIFT IS SOMETHING WE DON' T THINK IS APPROPRIATE .
14 THAT PERHAPS ADDRESSED YOUR QUESTION OR ANSWERED YOUR
15 QUESTION AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE .
16 MR. LEWIS : IF I COULD TAKE ONE MINUTE . WE KEEP
17 TRYING TO RESPOND TO WHAT THE CITY EXPRESSES, AND THAT' S
18 WHERE THE IDEA CAME FROM. ONE OF YOUR STAFF REPORTS SAYS
19 CONSIDER DEVELOPER' S CREDIBILITY, WHAT CAN HE PRODUCE FOR
20 THE COMMUNITY? THEN THIS SENTENCE, QUOTING FROM MR. LAWS
21 REPORT, "WHAT HAS THE DEVELOPER OFFERED WITHOUT BEING ASKED
22 TO PROVIDE FOR THE COMMUNITY?"
23 IN OTHER WORDS, WE WERE LED TO THINK THAT
24 IF WE DID SOMETHING BEYOND WHAT THE LAW REQUIRED, YOU' D
25 WELCOME IT . NOW YOUR WHOLE P01NT SYSTEM -- I ALMOST SAID
26 YOUR WHOLE DAMN POINT SYSTEM -- BUT THAT GIVES POINTS TO
41
1 DECIDING WHICH DEVELOPERS GET TO BUILD HOUSES . YOU GIVE
2 POINTS FOR THINGS DONE BEYOND ';,,THAT THE LEGAL REQUIREMENTS
3 ARE . YOUR CHART -- I FORGET THE WORDING, BUT CORRECT ME
4 IF I 'M WRONG --- IF YOU GIVE EXTRA PARK BEYOND WHAT THE
5 ORDINANCE REQUIRES, IF YOU RUN THE STORM DRAINING FARTHER
6. THAN REQUIRED, ALL THOSE THINGS GIVE EXTRA POINTS . SO
7 THERE' S A WHOLE LOT OF PRECEDENT WHERE THE CITY SAID, SeHEY,
8 YOU DEVELOPERS DO SOMETHING FOR US . "
9 AS FAR AS CONFLICT OF INTEREST, WE HAVEN ' T
10 PROPOSED, AND WE CERTAINLY HAVEN ' T BEEN ASKED TO GIVE ONE
11 PENNY TO ANYBODY ON THE BODY . I DON' T EVEN MEAN TO
12 OFFEND THEM BY T€-€INKING OF IT . THERE ' S NO PRIVATE BENEFIT.
13 WE ARE TALKING ONLY THE CITY OF RANCHO CUCAMONGA. I DON' T
14 THINK ANYBODY UP THERE WOULD ASK US FOR A NICKEL, BUT WE ' D
15 CERTAINLY SAY HELL, NO, IF YOU DID . I ' M NOT TRYING TO
16 INSULT ANYBODY, BUT THIS IS COMMON IN MANY CITIES . IN FACT,
17 IT GOES ON ALL OVER THE COUNTRY, BECAUSE OUR TAX ATTORNEY
18 WAS DOING RESEARCH AND FOUND ALL SORTS OF CASES ON WHETHER
19 IT' S DEDUCTIBLE OR NOT . BUT APPARENTLY IT ' S DONE ALL OVER
20 THE COUNTRY .
21 YOU FOUND 1,40 LAW CASE THAT SAID IT CAN' T
22 BE DONE OR CAN' T BE ACCEPTED .
23 MR. HOPSON : MR . LEWIS, ATTORNEYS CAN DISAGREE
24 ON ANY POINT.
25 MR . LEWIS : I AGREE WITH THAT.
26 MR . REMPEL : ARE THERE ANY OTHERS IN THE
4'2
1 AUDIENCE?
2 THERE WAS A GENTLEMAN UP HERE FIRST IN
3 FRONT OF YOU.
4 YES?
5 MR . MEYER : GENE MEYER . I LIVE AT 8914
6 MANZANITA DRIVE, WHICH IS IN THE NORTHERN PART OF RANCHO
7 CUCAMONGA. I WORK FOR THE LEWIS HOMES CORPORATION, AND
8 MY CONCERN HAS TO DO 1°11ITH ACCESS TO MASS TRANSIT.
9 THE PEOPLE THAT DON ' T HAVE CARS DON' T
10 HAVE THE ABILITY TO GET TO THE CENTERS, AND MY 4.IDS TAKE
11 THE BUS DOWN TO MONTCLAIR WHEN THEY WANT TO GO SHOPPING,
12 OR THEY HAVE TO RIDE THEIR BIKES . I 'M CONCERNED WITH THE
13 AVAILABILITY TO THESE MASS TRANSIT FACILITIES FOR THE
14 ELDERLY AND FOR THE PEOPLE WHO DON' T HAVE LICENSES AND
15 SO FORTH, CAN' T DRIVE . THAT' S MY CONCERN . THAT' S 'WHY
16 I FEEL LIKE PUTTING THE LOCATION AT HAVEN AND FOOTHILL
17 TO PROVIDE A MORE CENTRAL LOCATION FOR THESE PEOPLE WHO
18 CAN' T GET ACCESS TO THE CENTERS . THANK YOU.
19 MR. REMPEL : YES?
20 MR. CUNLIFFE--OWEN : ROGER CUNLIFFE-OWEN,
21 9362 MANDARIN .
22 I ' D JUST LIKE TO MAKE A COUPLE OF SMALL,
23 LITTLE STATEMENTS . FIRST OF ALL, BOTH THE PROJECTS HAVE
24 QUITE A SIT OF MERIT . MY PERSONAL FEELING ON IT IS
25 STRICTLY A PERSONAL FEELING . I LIKE THE HAVEN AND FOOT--
26 HILL LOCATION BETTER, GENERALLY, BECAUSE OF THE PROXIMITY
43
1 WHERE I LIVE . I THINK THAT THE CITY NEEDS A FOCUS . I
2 THINK IT NEEDS A CENTER. I BELIEVE THAT THE LOGICAL CENTER
3 OF THE CITY WOULD BE HAVEN AND FOOTHILL. IT' S A NEAT
4 PLACE TO BE .
5 THE ONLY OTHER POINT THAT I ' D LIKE TO BRING
6 UP IS THAT THERE' S TWO OTHER REGIONAL CENTERS THAT COME TO
7 MIND THAT ARE ADJACENT TO A FREEWAY . THAT IS MONTCLAIR
8 PLAZA, WHICH I `i-A SURE EVERYONE IS FAMILIAR WITH, AND ALSO
S THE PUENTE HILLS MALL. THESE ARE JUST TWO. WHEN THEY ARE
10 ADJACENT TO THE FREEWAY LIKE THIS, I NOTICE THAT THE
11 TRAFFIC CONGESTION IS PARTICULARLY BAD WHEN YOU HAVE
12 OFFRAMPS THAT OUTLET DIRECTLY TO A SHOPPING CENTER, OR
13 THERE ' S SOME PROBLEM IN THAT REGARD EITHER COMING DIRECTLY
14 INTO THE PARKING LOT OR SOME PERIMETER STREET . SOME
15 SHOPPING CENTERS THAT ARE AWAY FROM FREEWAYS, LIKE FASHION
16 ISLAND AND SOME OF THE OTHER ONES T'IAT HAVE A STRETCH OF
17 ROAD, MAIN HIGHWAY LIKE FOOTHILL OR MAVEN, WHERE TRAFFIC
18 CAN SMOOTH OUT TEND TO RELIEVE SOME OF THE CONGESTION
19 AROUND THERE, AND THAT I:S JUST A POINT THAT I E D LIKE TO
20 BRING UP .
21 THANK YOU.
. 22 MR . REMPE.L : ANY OTHERS?
23 MR. Al-,IGONA : MY NAME IS SAM ANCONA, 8489
24 FOOTHILL COUNTRY CLUB DRIVE, RANCHO CUCAMONGA.
25 THE REASON WHY I COME FORWARD --- ACTUALLY,
26 1 HADN' T PLANNED ON SAYING ANYTHING -- BUT THE GENTLEMAN
44
1 HAPPENED TO SPEAK ABOUT" THE LOCAL BUSINESSMAN, AND IT KIND
2 OF RANG A BELL . BEING IN THE GENERAL AREA -- ONTARIO,
3 UPLAND, RANCHO CUCAMONGA -- FOR SOME 30-ODD YEARS, I ' VE
4 SEEN SEVERAL SHOPPING CENTERS AND REGIONAL 'CENTERS GO UP .
5 AND I THINK WE HAVE AN OBLIGATION TO PROTECT OUR LOCAL
6 MERCHANT; BECAUSE AS THE REGIONALS GO OUT, SO ARE THE
7 SMALL BUSINESSMEN TO LOCATE AND TO TRY TO TAKE ADVANTAGE
8 OF THE TRAFFIC .
9 SO FROM THAT STANDPOINT, I ' D LIKE THAT
10 CONSIDERATION, ALSO PROTECTING THE LOCAL BUSINESSMEN AND
11 KIND OF KEEPING THE SHOPPERS IN CLOSER .
12 THANK YOU.
13 MR. REMPEL : YES?
14 MR . TANNENBAUM : MY NAME IS RONNY TANNENBAUM
15 AND I LIVE ON ETIWA14DA AVENUE .
16 I ' D LIKE TO REINFORCE SOMETHING THAT
17 JEFF MENTIONED AS TO WHAT THE COMMUNITY WOULD LIKE THE
18 FOCUS OF THE COMMUNITY TO BE . IF THE REGIONAL CENTER IS
19 LOCATED AT BASICALLY THE CE14TER OF THE CITY , WHICH WOULD
20 BE HAVEN AND FOOTHILL, WE WILL HAVE A CITY WHICH IS
21 BASICALLY DEFINED BY ITS REGIONAL CENTER . THIS CITY - -
22 AT LEAST IT' S MY FEELING FROM TALKING TO PEOPLE, ESPECIALLY
23 Oil THE C .A. C . OF WHICH I AM A MEMBER, THAT THEY DO NOT
24 WANT THE CITY TO BE DEFINED AS BASICALLY A SHOPPING CITY .
25 THEY WANT IT TO BE DEFINED AS A GOOD PLACE TO LIVE, A
26 GOOD PLACE TO ENJOY THEMSELVES, A GOOD PLACE TO RELAX, TO
LF 5
1 SPEND THEIR LEISURE. TIME . THEY DO ';ANT SHOPPING, BUT THEY
2 DO NOT WANT THE CITY TO BE THOUGHT OF IN OTHER PEOPLE ' S
3 MINDS AND TO REVOLVE AROUND ITS REGIONAL CENTER; WHICH,
4 IF PLACED ON HAVEN AND FOOTHILL., IT WILL BASICALLY BE
5 THOUGHT OF AS A CITY WE GO TO TO SHOP .
6 THANK YOU.
7 MR. REMPEL: YES?
8 MR. SANDS : GOOD EVENING . I 'M HAROLD SANDS, AND
9 I ' VE BEEN BEFORE YOU REPRESENTING THE DEERCREEK COMPANY .
10 AND I ALSO DO WORK FOR LEWIS HOMES, AND I ' VE ALSO DONE
11 WORK FOR OTHER BUILDERS AS AN INDEPENDENT CONSULTANT .
12 I ' M HERE TO SPEAK FOR DEERCREEK ONLY ON
13 THE . BASIS THAT WERE THEY NOT TO SPEAK, YOU MIGHT CONSIDER
14 THAT TO BE A VOTE AGAINST A HAVEN AND FOOTHILL CENTER.
15 THAT IS NOT THE CASE . THEY ARE DETAINED TONIGHT . I
16 CAN ONLY SAY THAT THEY WHO LOOK TO HAVEN AVENUE AS A
17 PRIMARY ACCESS HAVE NO OBJECTION AND WOULD FAVOR A HAVEN
18 DEVELOPMENT .
19 SECONDLY, IN DISCUSSION WITH SILL GRIGSBY,
20 IT WAS INDICATED THAT IT MOULD APPEAR THAT THE LOGICAL
21 DEVELOPMENT OF THE CITY IS, AS YOU DO REQUIRE IN MANY
22 OTHER CASES, FROM THE CORE OUTWARD, AND THE FOOTHILL AND
23 HAVEN SITE WOULD APPEAR TO OFFER THIS POSITIVE DIVISION .
24 THAI4K YOU.
25 MR. REMPEL : Yy5?
26 MR . WILSON : GOOD EVENING. I ' M JERRY WILSON,
46
1 6035 FALLING TREE LANE, ALTA LOMA.
2 FOR A MYRIAD OF REASONS, MANY OF WHICH
3 HAVE ALREADY BEEN MENTIONED TONIGHT, I AM FOR THE LOCATION
4 OF HAVEN AND FOOTHILL.
5 MR. REMPEL: ARE THERE OTHERS?
6 YES?
7 MS . CURRY : MY NAME 15 NORMA CURRY . I LIVE ON
8 BERYL IN RANCHO CUCAMONGA. I ' M A NATIVE OF THIS AREA, AND
9 I ' VE LIVED HERE ALL MY LIFE . AND I ' VL- SEEN A LOT OF
10 GROWTH AND A LOT OF CHANGES , AVID ONE OF THE THINGS THAT
11 WAS BROUGHT UP WAS TRANSPORTATION. I WORK FOR THE WELFARE
12 DEPARTMENT, AND MY CLIENTS THAT DON' T HAVE ANY MONEY CAN
13 ALWAYS GET OVER TO SAN BERNARDINO BY WAY OF THE BUS SYSTEM
14 TO PICK UP THEIR EMERGENCY MEDICAL OR THEIR EMERGENCY
15 CHECKS . AND I DON ' T THINK THAT TRANSPORTATION IS A PROBLEf
16 AS TO WHERE THE LOCATION SHOULD BE, PUT I REALLY FEEL THAT
17 IF THE SHOPPING CENTER GOES IN ON FOOTHILL AND HAVEN,
18 THAT' S GOING TO CAUSE HiORE PROBLEM AS FAR AS CONGESTION
19 TO OUR COMMUNITY . AND I REALLY FEEL THAT IT SHOULD BE
20 OUT FARTHER.
21 AND HOW ABOUT THE STUDENTS GOING UP TO
22 CHAFFEY COLLEGE? WHAT KIND OF A PROBLEM IS THIS GOING TO
23 CAUSE FOR THEM?
24 MR. REMPEL : ARE THERE ANY OTHERS?
25 CNO RESPONSE . )
26 MR. REMPEL: IF NOT, !F;E 14ILL CLOSE THIS OPEN
47
1 FORUM, THEN, FOR A FEI MINUTES, AT LEAST AS THE COMMISSION
2 DISCUSSES AGAIN . IN THE COMMISSION DISCUSSION, IT MAY
3 RAISE SOME MORE QUESTIONS OUT THERE; SO IF, AS TO THAT,
4 THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE THAT DISH TO RESPOND TO WHAT THE
5 COMMISSION MIGHT BRING UP, THEN I WILL OPEN IT UP AGAIN
6 FOR A LITTLE BIT OF THAT.
7 ARE WHERE ANY COMMENTS, THEN, FROM THE
8 COMMISSION?
9 MS . JONES : MR . CHAIRMAN, SOME OF THE POINTS
10 I ' VE MADE HERE ►HAT I THINK ARE WELL WORTH CONSIDERING
11 ARE ACCEPTABILITY VERSUS REGIONAL TRAFFIC IMPACT; THE
12 AFFECT ON SMALL BUSINESS THAT' S ALREADY ESTABLISHED HERE
13 BY KEEPING THE REGIONAL APART FROM WHAT WE MIGHT CALL THE
14 CORE OR THE HUB OF THE CITY .
15 IN THE PAST, LISTENING TO HEARINGS ON THE
16 GENERAL PLAN, I NOTED THAT WE HAD MANY, MANY CONCERNS
17 WITH TRAFFIC AND IMPACTION . WE HAVE BEEN BUSY WIDENING
18 SOME STREETS . WE PROBABLY HAVE TO WIDEN MORE, BUT I
19 THINK THOSE ARE TWO MAIN THOUGHTS YOU MUST KEEP IN MIND
20 IN OUR DISCUSSION, ACCESSIBILITY TO THE LOCAL RESIDENTS,
21 YET NOT LET THEM BE IMPACTED TOO 14UCH BY THE REGIONAL
22 LMPACT . AND I DO THIHI/ THAT BY PLACING IT IN THE PROPER
23 SPOT ON THE MAP THAT, MAYBE, WE CAN `-•!ORK THIS OUT DURING
24 THE COURSE OF OUR DISCUSSION .
25 MR . REIAPEL : ANY OTHERS?
26 MR. DAHL : THE ONLY COMMENTS I ' D LIKE TO MAKE
48
1 IS SEVERAL THINGS THAT COME TO PLAY WHEN I START REVIEWING
2 WHAT I ` VE HEARD SO FAR BY THOSE DEVELOPERS . I THINK,
3 QUITE FRANKLY, BOTH LOCATIONS ARE VERY IDEAL; HOWEVER, WE
4 CAN ONLY SELECT ONE AS A REGIONAL .
5 THE THING I ' D LIKE TO POINT OUT FIRST OF
6 ALL IS THAT, REGARDING THE TRAFFIC AND THE IMPACTION ON
7 OUR STREETS, I ' VE HEARD THIS BROUGHT UP ON SEVERAL
8 OCCASIONS . I REALLY FEEL THAT THE FACTS ARE THAT, NO
9 MATTER WHERE THE CENTER IS PLACED, YOU ARE GOING TO FIND
10 THAT APPROXIMATELY 40 PERCENT OF THAT CENTER ' S BUSINESS
11 IS GOING TO BE COMING FROM THE NORTH AND NORTHWEST
12 SECTION, WHICH MEANS IT WILL BE COMING FROM THE UPLAND
13 AREA AND FROM WEST ALTA LOMA AREA . SO THEY WILL BE
14 UTILIZING OUR STREETS . I WOULD SAY 40 PERCENT IS PROBA-
15 BLY A LOW FIGURE AT THIS TIME . I FEEL SURE THAT THE
16 FIGURE WOULD BE MUCH HIGHER THAN THAT, ESPECIALLY AT
17 THE BEGINNING OF THE CENTER UNTIL GROWTH OF NOT ONLY
18 OUR CITY BUT WHATEVER HAPPENS IN THE FONTANA AREA TAKES
19 PLACE . THAT MEANS THAT, NO MATTER WHICH DIRECTION YOU
20 DO CHOOSE, THERE WILL BE IMPACTION ON OUR STREETS . THEY
21 WILL BE UTILIZING FOOTHILL BOULEVARD . THEY WILL BE
22 UTILIZING BASELINE TO GET TO THE CENTER.
23 IN ADDITION TO THIS, LOOKING AT IT FROM
24 THE ON`I"ARIO STANDPOINT, DRAWING FROM THE ONTARIO-MONTCLAI
25 AREA, I WAS TRYING TO DETERMINE IF I WAS TO COME FROM
26 THAT AREA TO COME TO A CENTER LOCATED AT FOOTHILL AND
49
1 HAVEN! OR AT FOOTHILL AND THE DEVORE FREEWAY, THE MOST
2 LOGICAL ROUTE FOR ME TO GO, BECAUSE I `M ON THE FREEWAY
3 TO START WITH, WHICH WOULD BE THE SAN BERNARDINO FREEWAY,
4 WOULD BE TO GO AND CONTINUE ON OVER TO THE DEVORE FREEWAY
5 AND FROM THE DEVORE FREEWAY TO FOOTHILL AND BACKTRACK TO
6 HAVEN . YOU CAN TRAVEL MUCH FASTER ON A FREEWAY THAN YOU
7 CAN ON A SURFACE STREET, AND I WOULD RATHER DRIVE TWO
8 MILES ON FOOTHILL AND BACKTRACK THAN I WOULD TO GO UP
9 HAVEN AVENUE, WHICH UNDOUBTEDLY DILL HAVE STOPLIGHTS OR
10 STOP SIGNS . 50, I ` M TRYING TO LOOT: AT THIS REALISTICALLY
11 THAT IS THE IMPACTION, AS FAR AS THE TRAFFIC; IS CONCERNED
12 1 DON' T SEE THE EFFECTS IN EITHER
13 DIRECTION, WHICHEVER WAY WE MUST USE . SO, I 'M TRYING TO
14 KEEP THAT FROM MY MIND AS BEING A DECISION, A REASON FOR
15 MAKING A DECISION ONE WAY OR THE OTHER . THERE ' S OTHER
16 THINGS THAT ARE INVOLVED IN THIS THAT WILL ENTER INTO
17 MAKING ANY DECISION, BUT TRAFFIC ISN ` T ONE OF THEM.
18 THE OTHER THING, TOO, IS, WHEN I LISTEN
19 TO THE TYPE OF STORES, I WANT TO ALSO MAKE ONE STATEMENT
20 THAT WE ARE LOOKING AT, AND I QUOTE THIS, "HIGH-LINE
21 DEPARTMENT STORE CENTER, " A HIGH--LINE DEPARTMENT STORE
22 CENTER WOULD APPROXIMATELY SERVICE ONE-THIRD OF THE
23 POPULATION . ONLY ONE--THIRD OF THE POPULATION CAN AFFORD
24 TO UTILIZE THE HIGH-LINE DEPARTMENT STORE CENTER . I
25 WANT TO KEEP THAT IN MIND AND WANT TO KNOW THAT WE HAVE
26 SOME TYPE OF 11,11X BEFORE I MAKE A DECISION, ALSO, AS TO
50
1 WHAT MY RECOMMENDATION WILL BE .
2 I TURN IT BACK .
3 MR . LAM: MR . CHAIRMAN, I ' D LIKE TO COMMENT ON
4 A NUMBER OF THINGS SAID THIS EVENING. AGAIN, WE ARE
5 LOOKING AT THE CONCEPT OF A GENERAL PLAN, AND WE ARE NOT
6 EVALUATING ANY PARTICULAR REGIONAL CENTER IN TERMS OF
7 MERITS, STORES SELECTED, BECAUSE WE ARE NOT PASSING
8 JUDGMENT ON A PROJECT.
9 MR. DAHL : MR. LAM, IF THAT' S THE CASE, WE
10 SHOULD NEVER HAVE HEARD THE PRESENTATIONS AS THEY WERE
11 MADE IN THE BEGINNING AS TO THE TYPE OF STORES THAT WOULD
12 BE BROUGHT INTO THE CENTERS; AND, SO, I HAVE TO DISAGREE
13 WITH YOU THAT THAT DOES HAVE TO CONE INTO PLAY AT THIS
14 TIME, BECAUSE THERE WAS A BIG POINT MADE AS TO THE TYPE
15 OF STORES THAT WOULD BE BROUGHT INTO EACH ONE OF THESE
16 CENTERS . WE DIDN ' T ERASE THAT FROM OUR MIND. THAT IS
17 EVIDENCE THAT HAS BEEN BROUGHT BEFORE US . SO, AS A
18 RESULT, IT DOES BECOME A POINT THAT WE HAVE TO LOOK ATf
19 AND, SO, I JUST WANTED TO MAKE THAT A POINT, THAT IT' S
20 ONE THING THAT IS IN THE BACK OF MY MIND . HOWEVER" I 'M
21 NOT GOING TO ALLOW THAT TO FINALIZE MY JUDGEMENT AS TO
22 WHICH WAY WE ARE GOING.
23 MR. REMPEL : DO YOU HAVE ANY FURTHER COMMENT?
24 MR. LAIR: I JUST WANTED TO MENTION THAT, IN THE
25 DECISION MIAiKING TONIGHT, THE ISSUES TO BE DISCUSSED ARE
26 THOSE THAT ARE RELATIVE TO THE CONCEPTUAL LEVEL OF A
51
1 GENERAL PLAN, TO INSURE THAT THE ISSUES OF SPECIFIC APPROV .L
2 OF A CENTER OR USES WITHIN IT THROUGH A USE PERMIT PRO-
3 CEDURE IS NOT AN ISSUE THIS EVENING REGARDLESS OF INFORMA-
4 TION THAT ' S PRESENTED .
5 MR. REMPEL : I THINK, IF I MAY, A COUPLE OF
6 ITEMS .
7 TRAFFIC, OF COURSE, IS PROBABLY ONE OF
8 THE MAJOR FACTORS IN DETERMINING WHAT IS BEST -- NOT THE,
9 IT IS ONE OF THE MAJOR FACTORS IN DETERMINING THE LOCATION
10 OF A CENTER . AT OUR MEETING MONDAY, ONE OF THE FACTS
11 BROUGHT UP WAS THERE WOULD PROBABLY BE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD
12 OF 20, 000 CARS IN AND OUT OF THAT CENTER IN ONE DAY, EACH
13 DAY . THAT MEANS IN THE 10 HOURS OF, APPROXIMATELY,
14 OPERATION, AVERAGING OUT, YOU WOULD HAVE APPROXIMATELY
15 2, 000 CARS IN AND OUT OF THAT CENTER PER HOUR . THAT MEANS
16 THAT THERE ' S ONE CAR EVERY TWO SECONDS, APPROXIMATELY .
17 OF THESE CARS, THEN, BY THE FIGURES ON THE HOMART CENTER
18 AT FOOTHILL AND HAVEN, WITH THE NUMBER OF CARS THAT THEY
19 ARE PROPOSING, THAT WOULD MEAN THAT THERE WOULD BE
20 APPROXIMATELY 300 CAPS PER HOUR AT THE FOOTHILL AND HAVEN
21 INTERSECTION; OR, IF YOU WANT TO GET D0WN TO IT, ON A
22 TWO-MINUTE CYCLE, LET ' S SAY, OF THE SIGNALS AT THAT
23 INTERSECTION AT THIS PERIOD OF TIME, THOSE CARS COULD
24 BACK UP TO HAVEN OR FOOTHILL UP TO 25 AND 50 CARS AT THAT
25 INTERSECTION.
26 NOW, IF YOU GO INTO PEAK LOADING, THIS
52
1 COULD BECOME MUCH bdORSE; AND I THINK THAT IT HAS TO BE
2 A FACTOR IN OUR CONSIDERATION. NOVI, IF YOU WANT TO GO
3 INTO THE HOLIDAY TRAFFIC PERIODS OF WHEN THOSE PARKING
4 LOTS WOULD BE FULL AROUND THIS TYPE OF CENTER, DOUBLE
5 THIS FIGURE . SO, I THINK THAT TRAFFIC DEFINITELY HAS TO
6 BE A FACTOR IN OUR CONSIDERATION .
7 I THINK ANOTHER FACTOR, THEN, IN THE
8 CONSIDERATION HAS TO BE WHO IS THE CENTER FOR? AND THAT
9 HAS TO HAVE A TWO—FOLD ANSWER, BECAUSE WE ARE CALLING IT
10 A REGIONAL CENTER. HOMART IS SAYING THEY ARE GOING TO
11 DRAW THEIR PRIMARY TRAFFIC ' i=ROM THE AREA, LET' S SAY, OF
12 UPLAND, POSSIBLY I14TO CLAREMONT, OVER TO FONTANA AND, THEN
13 RANCHO CUCAMONGA, ONTARIO. BUT WE HAVE TO REALIZE AGAIN
14 THAT THAT MANY CARS THAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT, AND EACH
15 ONE HAS ADMITTED THE FACT THAT THE PARKING LOT IS GOING
16 TO BE ABOUT HALF FULL AT ALL TIMES, THAT MEANS THEN THAT
17 THEY ARE ALSO EXPECTING TO GET A CONSIDERABLE AMOUNT OF
18 TRAFFIC FROM OUTSIDE THIS AREA, NOT JUST FROM THE AREA
19 THAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT. THAT IS TRUE THAT 60
20 PERCENT OF THE PEOPLE WILL COME FROM THAT AREA, BUT 40
21 PERCENT ARE STILL GOING TO COME FROM THE SAME AREA THAT
22 THE HAHN GROUP WAS TALKING ABOUT .
23 S0, WHAT COMES OF THIS? IT' S TRUE THAT
24 THE TRAFFIC CAN BE MITIGATED BY MAKING VERY WIDE STREETS
25 OUT OF FOOTHILL AND HAVEN; BUT DO 1141E VIAN T THAT? THIS
26 BECOMES A FACTOR, DO 1qE VIANT AP.! EIGHT--LANE BOULEVARD OUT
53
1 OF FOOTHILL AND HAVEN RUNNING UP AND DOWN? THIS REALLY
2 COULD CAUSE SOME PROBLEMS .
3 I THINK THAT WHAT WAS BROUGHT OUT BY THE
4 C .A. C . ---- AND I ' lA, ALSO TWO OTHER COMMISSIONERS HERE ARE
5 MEMBERS OF THE CITIZENS ADVISTORY COMMITTEE --- I THINK
6 THAT THE FOCUS OF THE CITY IS ALSO A VERY IMPORTANT FACTOR.
7 AND I THINK THAT AS A COMMISSION, SITTING FOR THE PEOPLE
8 OF THIS CITY, WE HAVE TO LOOT: AT WHAT THE CITY NEEDS NOW;
9 BUT ALSO WHAT DOES THE CITY NEED 20 YEARS, 30 YEARS, 50
10 YEARS DOWN THE LINE INHEN OUR CITY IS BUILT UP? WE (KEEP
11 LOOKING NOW AT A CITY THAT IS WEST OF HAVEN . I THINK WE
12 NEED TO REALIZE THAT, IN A FEW YEARS -- AND 10 YEARS IS
13 REALLY A FEW YEARS, ESPECIALLY IF YOU GOT 55 UNDER THE
14 BELT -- 10 YEARS DOWN THE LINE, PROBABLY, OUR MAJOR CENTER
15 OF POPULATION IS GOING TO ESE HAVEN AVENUE .
16 IT IS A VERY DIFFICULT DECISION THAT THE
17 COMMISSION HAS TO MAKE . AND BOTH OF THE DEVELOPERS, LEWIS
18 AND LYON COMPANY, ARE WELL KNOWN TO ALL THE COMMISSIONERS,
19 AND WE MOPE THEY ARE STILL FRIENDS OF OURS . BUT WE STILL
20 HAVE TO MAKE DECISIONS, AND THEY ARE HARD DECISIONS . AND
21 WE HAVE TO MAKE THEM NOT NECESSARILY ALWAYS ON WHAT IS
22 THE SHORT-RANGE PROFIT FOR THE CITY, BUT WHAT IS THE TOTAL
23 FUTURE OF THE CITY .
24 MR. GARCIA: MR . CHAIRMAN, I ' D LIKE TO, PERHAPS,
25 ELABORATE A LITTLE BIT ON THE STATEMENTS OF TRAFFIC THEY
26 HAVE MADE .
54
1 I THINK THAT THEY ARE VALID, BUT IT SEEMS
2 TO ME SOMEWHAT DISTURBING, THE FACT THAT WE ARE, PERHAPS,
3 MAKING PROJECTIONS OF TODAY ' S TRAFFIC TRENDS, MODES OF
q TRANSPORTATION, PEOPLE' S HABITS, SHOPPING, DRIVING. AND
5 I THINK' THAT THERE ' S INDICATIONS THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY,
6 NOT ONLY HERE BUT THROUGHOUT THE. WORLD, IN WHICH OUR
7 TRENDS OF MODE OF TRANSPORTATION AND LIVING HABITS ARE
8 GOING TO CHANGE. AND I THINK THAT, WHETHER WE LIKE IT OR
9 NOT, WE ARE GOING TO EVEN BE OBLIGATED TO CHANGE . AND THE
10 QUESTION COMES, ARE WE GOING TO PRESERVE OUR PRESENT HABITS
11 OR ARE WE GOING TO HAVE TO CHANGE? IF THAT' S THE CASE,
12 WHERE SHOULD THAT CHANGE TAKE PLACE AND WHAT' S IT GOING
13 TO DO TO OUR LIFESTYLE AND WHICH OF THESE AMENITIES THAT
14 WE ARE ENJOYING AT THE PRESENT TIME ARE GOING TO RELATE
15 TO EACH OTHER IN THE FUTURE, ESPECIALLY WHEN WE ARE TALKING
16 ABOUT TIME NEXT 10, 15 YEARS . A14D I FEEL AND I BELIEVE THAT
17 IN THE NEAT FIVE YEARS, WE ARE GOING TO SEE SOME CHANGES
18 VERY RAPIDLY IN OUR COUNTRY, ESPECIALLY IN SOUTHERN
19 CALIFORNIA. THEREFORE, I FEEL THAT, SINCE WE ARE TALKING
20 TOWARD THE FUTURE, WE SHOULD PERHAPS EVALUATE AND CAREFULLY
21 ADDRESS OURSELVES TO THAT TYPE OF FACTOR .
22 AND ANOTHER THING THAT REALLY PUZZLES ME,
23 NOT ONLY THE POTENTIAL DEVELOPMENT THAT WE HAVE, IT IS
24 THE PROJECT ITSELF IN TERMS OF THEIR LOCATION THEMSELVES .
25 IT TENDS TO HAVE TWO DIFFERENT TYPES OF PARAMETERS . ONE
26 IS AT THE REGIONAL LEVEL; THE OTHER IS AT A LOCAL LEVEL.
55.
1 THE SHOPPERS ARE AT THE REGIONAL LEVEL, THE OTHER ONE IS
2 THE LOCAL LEVEL . THE QUESTION IS, SHOULD WE HAVE BOTH
3 OR CAN WE HAVE BOTH? CAN WE MODIFY BOTH? IT' S SOMETHING
4 THAT I ' M NOT BEING ABLE TO PUT THE MISSING LINK BETWEEN
5 THOSE TWO, BECAUSE THEY ARE ALL VALID AND THEY ALL COULD
B BE SUCCESSFUL. AND, SO, I THINK THAT' S SOMETHING THAT
7 lelE SHOULD FOCUS ON AND DISCUSS DURING OUR EVALUATION OF
8 THIS PROJECT .
9 WHATEVER DECISION THIS COMMISSION MAKES
10 WITH THE COUNCIL, THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE TO LIVE WJ TH IT.
11 NOT ONLY US, BECAUSE WE COULD BE OUT OF HERE VERY SHORTLY,
12 BUT THE PEOPLE HAVE TO LIVE WITH IT, AND I THINK THAT,
13 NOT TO CONTRADICT MR. LAM THAT THE CONCEPT IS A VERY
14 SUPERFICIAL DECISION, I THINK THAT IT' S TOTALLY THE CON--
15 TRARY . THAT IT' S VERY IMPORTANT BECAUSE IT DEALS WITH THE
16 ECONOMICS AND VITALITY AND HOW THE CITY IS GOING TO GROW,
17 THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN .
18 MR. HOPSON: WHAT THE STAFF WAS TRYING TO CONVEY
19 IS THAT THIS IS -- AND YOU MAY HAVE MISUNDERSTOOD -- THIS
20 IS NOT THE FINAL DECISION YOU ARE MAKING TONIGHT. THERE
21 WILL BE OTHER OPPORTUNITIES AT SEVERL PUBLIC HEARINGS FOR
22 INPUT AT THE ENVIRONPIENTAL IMPACT REPORT LEVEL. AT THAT
23 TIME, WHEN YOU FINALLY HAVE A PROPOSED GENERAL PLAN IN
24 FRONT OF YOU THAT YOU ARE FORCED TO SAY WE WILL RECOMMEND
25 AND CERTIFY THE ADOPTION OF THE LAND USE ELEMENT OF THAT
26 TO THE CITY COUNCIL . AND NOT THAT THIS ISN ' T AN IMPORTANT
56
1 DECISION, BUT WHAT WE ARE DOING RIGHT NOW IS TRYING TO
2 GIVE THE CITY ' S CONSULTANTS SOME IDEA, SOME FOCUS, AND
3 TO LET HIM START CONCENTRATING ON TRAFFIC PATTERNS AND
4 EVERYTHING ELSE THAT GOES INTO THE PRESENTATION . THAT' S
5 NOT TO MINIMIZE THE IMPORTANCE OF THIS DECISION . IT ' S
6 A BIG DECISION, BUT YOU ARE NOT MAKING THE FINAL DECISION
7 TONIGHT .
8 MR. TOLSTOY : IT' S MY TURN, I GUESS .
9 WE HAVE BEEN SITTING HERE AS A COMMISSION
10 FOR ABOUT 18 MONTHS TO TWO YEARS, AND WE MADE A COMMITMENT
11 A LONG WAY BACK THAT THIS COMMUNITY SHOULD HAVE A REGIONAL
12 CENTER. THAT WASN ' T OUR DECISION . IT WAS THE COMMUNITY ' S
13 DECISION AND THE CITY COUNCIL AND THE PLANNING COMMISSION .
14 AND ON THE INTERIM PLAN THAT WAS ADOPTED, THE ONE THAT
15 BLAYNAY ASSOCIATES HELPED US WITH, AS YOU CAN SEE OVER
16 HERE ON THE WALL, THIS IS THE ONE WE ARE GOING BY NOW.
17 THERE ARE THREE PROPOSED REGIONAL CENTERS, AND AT THE
18 TIME WE WERE DELIBERATING HOW THIS PLAN WAS TO BE FOCUSED,
19 WE DIDN' T MAKE -- WE COULDN' T MAKE A DECISION ON WHERE
20 THAT WAS TO BE, 50 WE SAID, HEY, THERE ' S A BIG CENTER OF
21 THE CITY -- AND YOU CAN SEE IT ' S BLANK THERE NOW -- WITH
22 THREE ALTERNATIVES,: AND THOSE ALTERNATIVES ARE ON THE
23 GENERAL PLAN. WE HAVE PRETTY MUCH ELIMINATED ONE, AND WE
24 ,HAVE TWO NOW TO LOOK AT . AND I REALIZE THAT WHAT WE DO
25
TONIGHT WILL BE ADVISING THE CITY COUNCIL AND HELP THEM
26
IN THEIR WISDOM TO MAKE A DECISION! WITH THE DIRECTION OF
57
1 OUR CURRENT CONSULTANT .
2 MANY THINGS HAVE HAPPENED OVER THIS LAST
3 18 MONTHS . WE' VE LEARNED A LOT . WE ' VE SEEN A LOT . WE
4 HAD A VERY EXCITING PLAN BY THE LEWIS COMPANY COME IN,
5 THE TERRA VISTA PLAN, 14HICH WAS THE FIRST PLAN I HAD
6 EVER SEEN THAT WAS LIlCE THAT . AND I �,,'AS REALLY EXCITED
7 ABOUT IT . THEN WE HAD THE VICTORIA PLAN THAT WAS BROUGHT
8 IN BY THE WILLIAM LYON COMPANY, AND I WAS EQUALLY EXCITED
9 BECAUSE THEY ARE BOTH REALLY EXCITING THINGS AND THEY GIVE
10 US AN OPPORTUNITY TO DO SOMETHING WITH THIS CITY THAT MANY
11 OTHER CITIES DON ' T HAVE ,
12 AND WE FIND OURSELVES NOW AT A POINT OF
13 DECISION, FOR THE FIRST PART OF THIS DECISION, ANYHOW .
14 RIGHT NOW I WISH WE HAD MADE THE DECISION ON 'WHERE THE
15 REGIONAL CENTER WOULD HAVE BEEN 18 MONTHS AGO, BUT WE
16 DIDN' T . SO WE PROCRASTINATED FOR A LONG TIME . I ' VE GOT
17 TO SAY THAT I ' VE HAD A REALLY INTERESTING TIME IN WHAT
18 I ' VE LEARNED AND WHAT I ' VE HEARD FROM THE COMMUNITY . I
19 HAVE SAT HERE EVERY OTHER WEEK FOR A LONG TIME, AND I
20 CONSTANTLY HEAP. THE CITY PEOPLE TELL ME THINGS THAT THEY
21 WANIT. OFT EI`,lTIMES THOSE ARE IN CONFLICT, AND I f VE CHANGED
22 MY FEELINGS, AND I ' VE HAD THEM I RECHANGED . BUT NOW IS THE
23 TIME WHEN I 'M GOING TO BE ONE OF FIVE PEOPLE THAT ARE GOING
24 TO MAKE A DECISION . SO, I WANT TO SHARE SOME OF MY THOUGH IS
25 WITH THE COMMISSION AND THE PEOPLE HERE TONIGHT . UNFOR-
26 TUNATELY, ALL THE PEOPLE AREN ' T HERE TONIGHT. WE HAVE
58
1 HEARD A LOT OF THEM SPEAK, AND WE HAVE HEARD WHAT THEY HAVE
2 SAID, BUT WE CANT LISTEN TO JUST THE FEW PEOPLE THAT WERE
3 HERE TONIGHT . I HAVE TO LISTEN TO THE PEOPLE I HAVE BEEN
4 LISTENING TO OVER THE LAST 18 MONTHS, AND, SO, IRD LIKE
5 TO SHARE WITH MY FELLOW COMMISSIONERS WHO ARE ABOUT TO
6 HELP ME MAKE A DECISION SOME OF MY THOUGIHTS .
7 I ` VE GOT TO BREAK THINGS UP INTO COMPART-
8 MENTS . SO, THE FIRST ONE I THOUGHT ABOUT IS TRAFFIC .
9 TRAFFIC IS --- IT' S AWESOME . THIS CITY HAD A TRAFFIC
10 ENGINEER, DKS, TAI:E A LOOT; AT THE CORNER OF HAVEN AND
11 FOOTHILL AS WELL AS OTHER PARTS OF THE CITY . WE HAD THE
12 K MART COMPANY COME IN A14D MAKE THE REPORT ON WHAT KIND
13 OF TRAFFIC WAS GOING TO OCCUR AT THIS POINT . WE HAD A,
14 MAN HERE TONIGHT THAT SAID SOMETHING THAT I KIND OF LIKED .
15 HE SAID, HEY, WHAT ABOUT THE PEOPLE W-10 ARE ALREADY IN
16 OUR CITY DOING BUSINESS' THEY NEED TO HAVE PEOPLE GOING
17 BY THEIR PLACES OF BUSINESS AS THEY GO TO A SHOPPING
18 CENTER, AND I AGREE WITH HIM. THEY DO . 50, I `VE HAD TO
19 TAKE THE TRAFFIC SITUATION AND LOOK UPON! IT AND BREAK IT
20 UP INTO TWO KINDS OF TRAFFIC WHEN WE ARE TALKING ABOUT
21 THE REGIONAL CENTER . I LOOK AT COMMUNITY TRAFFIC .
22 COMIiUNITY TRAFFIC IS TRAFFIC ON CITY STREETS, CITY AND
23 NEIGHBORHOOD, NEIGHBORHOODS WITHIN OUR CITY . AND FOR MY
24 DEFINITION, I HAD TO EVEN INCLUDE TRAFFIC OF NEIGHBORING
25 CITIES -- UPLAND, ONTARIO -- PEOPLE THAT COME THROUGH OUR
26 CITY . I 'M GOING TO CALL THAT COMMUNITY TRAFFIC . AND FOR
59
1 A REGIONAL CENTER, WE HAVE ANOTHER "TYPE OF TRAFFIC . AND
2 THAT' S CALLED, IN MY WAY OF THINKING, REGIONAL TRAFFIC .
3 AND I HINK NO MATTER WHERE THE CENTER GOES; WHETHER IT
4 GOES ON THE TERRA VISTA PROPERTY OR ON Ti'-'fE VICTORIA
5 PROPERTY, WE ' RE GOING TO HAVE, TRAFFIC . AND, SO, THE MAN
6 THAT GOES UP AND SAYS ARE WE GOING TO HAVE TRAFFIC GOING
7 BY OUR LOCAL BUSINESSMEN, WE ' RE GOING TO GET THAT NO
8 MATTER WHERE WE BUILD THE THING .
9 A COUPLE OF OTHER CONSIDERATIONS . DAON
10 CORPORATION AT FOOTHILL AND HAVEN ARE PLANNING AN INDUS-
11 TRIAL OFFICE CENTER AND AN INDUSTRIAL PARK . THEY ARE
12 GOING TO ADD -- CORRECT ME IF I 'M WRONG, JACK -- I BELIEVE,
13 FOUR MILLION SQUARE FEET . IF THAT' S CORRECT, THERE ' S
14 GOING TO BE A LOT OF CATS RUNNING AROUND THAT FOUR MILLION
15 SQUARE FEET. AND THOSE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE USING OUR
16 CITY STREETS . IT' S BEEN MENTIONED THAT CHAFFEY COLLEGE
17 IS ON THE NORTHERN END OF HAVEN AVENUE, AND I DON ' T THIN:
18 I HAVE TO CONSIDER THAT TRAFFIC BECAUSE THAT TRAFFIC IS
19 A VERY UNIQUE TYPE OF TRAFFIC. WE ARE A MORNING COLLEGE,
F5 20 AND EVERYBODY ' S THERE AT 8 : 00 . THE CENTER IS OPEN . THE
21 CENTERS THAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT OPEN AT 9 : 00 . THE PEOPLE
22 WHO LEAVE CHAFFEY COLLEGE LEAVE IT ALL DAY . THEY LEAVE
23 EACH HOUR. AND, SO, YOU DON' T HAVE A CONCENTRATION OF
24 TRAFFIC . SO I ' D SAY, HEY, I 'M NOT GOING TO WORRY ABOUT
25 THAT .
26 WE HAVE 20, 0G0 CARS A DAY GOING 1"0 A
60
1 REGIONAL CENTER. THAT' S A LOT OF TRAFFIC . WE HAVE A LOT
2 OF PEOPLE GOING TO THE DAON CENTER. THAT' S A LOT OF
3 TRAFFIC . WE HAVE A LOT OF SHOPPING COMMUNITY TRAFFIC .
4 THAT' S A LOT OF TRAFFIC .
5 SO, HERE IS WHAT I HAVE HAD TO THINK OR
6 THIS IS MY DECISION ON TRAFFIC . I ' VE HAD TO SAY SOMETHING,
7 AND THIS IS THAT I ' P1 GOING TO SAY . I ' M GOING TO SAY I
8 MOULD LIKE TO KEEP THE. REGIONAL TRAFFIC OFF OF OUR CITY
9 STREETS . I THINK IT ' S A MUST. I DON' T KNOW JUST HOW MANY
10 CARS THAT IS GOING TO BE, BUT WE' VE GOT TO KEEP THAT
11 REGIONAL TRAFFIC OUT OF THIS CITY . THIS CITY IS GOING TO
12 HAVE A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF TRAFFIC. PEOPLE LIVING IN THE
13 COMMUNITY, PEOPLE WORKING IN THE. COMMUNITY, PEOPLE DOING
14
ALL KINDS OF THINGS IN THEIR CARS . AND I REALIZE I DON 'T
15 THINK WE KNOB! WHAT THE IMPACT OF THE GAS CRUNCH IS . I
16 DON ' T THINK ANY OF US HAVE ANY IDL=A. WE ARE ALL GOING TO
17 BE WALKING, RIDING OUR HORSES, BIKES, ROLLER SKATES, AND
18 OCCASIONALLY USING OUR CARS . BUT THE TRAFFIC IS STILL A
19 RIG PROBLEM. REGIONAL TRAFFIC IS A BIG PROBLEM BECAUSE
20 PEOPLE FROM DISTANCES ARE GOING TO HAVE TO USE CARS .
21 PEOPLE WITHIN THE CITY ARE PROBABLY GOING TO BE BENEFITED
22 BY A LOCAL TRANSPORTATION SYSTEM.
23 THE MARKET AREA WAS SOMETHING THAI' I HAD
24 TO THINK ABOUT . IN MY THINKING, I HAD TO LISTEN TO
25 EVERYTHING I ' VE LISTENED UP TO NOW IN THE LAST 18 MONTHS .
26 I LISTENED TO THE PRESENTATION OF THE HOIIART COMPANY . I
61
1 LISTENED TO THE HAHN COMPANY . AND THIS IS MY IMPRESSION .
2 MY IMPRESSION IS THAT THE HOMART COMPANY IS TALKING ABOUT
3 A MARKET AREA THAT' S RATHER. LOCAL . THEY GAVE US A MAP
4 HERE . THEY DREW A BLUE LINE AROUND IT, AND THEY SAID,
5 HEY, THIS IS OUR CORE AREA. I CAN ' T EVEN REMEMBER WHAT
6 THE MAN SAID ABOUT IT, BUT HE GAVE US A FIGURE FOR THE
7 PEOPLE COMING TO THIS . AND WHEN I WAS LISTENING TO THE
8 HOMART PRESENTATION, I KEPT HEARING THIS RATHER LOCAL KIND
9 OF A SHOPPING CENTER, REGIONAL CENTER. AS I LISTENED TO
10 THE HAHN PEOPLE, I GOT THE CONCEPT OF A GREATER SHOPPING
11 AREA. THEY WERE TRYING TO CREATE A SHOPPING CONCEPT THAT
12 WOULD ATTRACT PEOPLE FROM FARTHER DISTANCES AS WELL AS OUR
13 LOCAL PEOPLE. AND WHEN I USE THE TERM ';LOCAL, " I 'M TALKING
14 ABOUT UPLAND AND ALL THE COMMUNITIES AROUND HERE . AND I
15 MUST ADMIT I LIKE ONE OF THE THINGS THE HAHN COMPANY SAID,
16 BECAUSE THEY SAID WE ARE TRYING TO ATTRACT HIGH FASHION
17 STORES . THAT' S SOMETHING THIS WHOLE VALLEY NEEDS . I DON ' T
1s THINK THE MONTCLAIR CENTER IS GOING TO BE MODIFIED TO
19 INCLUDE ANY HIGH FASHION STORES . I DON' T THINK ANY OF THE
20 OTHER SHOPPING CENTERS ARE GOING TO DO THIS . AND, SO, I
21 HAD TO SAY THE HAHN COMPANY SAID HIGH FASHION STORES ARE
22 WHAT WE ARE AFTER . AND I ' M SURE THE HOMART PEOPLE ARE TOO,
23 BUT I GOT THE IMPRESSION AS I LISTENED THAT THEY HAD A
24 BETTER HANDLE ON THAT . AND I THINK THEY WILL ATTRACT THE
25 HIGH FASHION STORES, ARE ON THEIR WAY TO IT, WHICH GIVES
26 US ADDED SALES TAX. , AND, OF COURSE, ADDED SALES TAX IS
62
1 NEEDED, BUT PROPOSITION 4 SORT OF' BLOWS THAT APART .
2 SO, I WAS LISTENING TO THAT KIND OF THING .
3 I ' VE BEEN THINKING ABOUT THE MARKETING
4 ,AREA AND THE SITES THAT THE HAHN COMPANY HAD ON A LARGER
5 AREA AND BRINGING IN MORE CARS . SO, THAT WAS AN IIAPORTANT
6 POINT.
7 ANOTHER THING I THOUGHT ABOUT WAS CITY
8 IMAGE . I THINK THE CITY IMAGE, FOR PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN
9 THIS CITY, IS ONE OF A RURAL COMMUNITY . THEY ALL MOVED
10 IN NEXT TO AN ORANGE GROVE, AND TWO OR THREE DAYS LATER,
11 THE ORANGE GROVE WAS YANKED OUT AND SOME HOUSES WERE PUT
12 IN , BUT, ANYWAY, EVERY TIME I LISTEN TO PEOPLE TALK IN
13 THIS COMMUNITY, I HEAR THE RURAL ATMOSPHERE, I CAME FOR
14 RURAL ATMOSPHERE . I THINK ART BRIDGE PUT IT SO WELL THE
15 OTHER NIGHT WHEN HE SAID THE RURAL ATMOSPHERE IS FLIES ON
16 A SCREEN DOOR . I LIKE THAT . BUT I THINK WHEN PEOPLE
17 THINK ABOUT OUR CITY AND THEY THINK ABOUT SHOPPING,
18 REGIONAL CENTERS, THEY ARE GOING TO THINK OF CONGESTION .
19 THAT' S SOMETHING I HAD TO THINK ABOUT. WE ARE TAKING THE
20 ORANGE GROVES OUT; WE ARE BRINGING PEOPLE IN, AND WE ARE
21 LOSING OUR RURAL ATMOSPHERE; AND ABOUT ALL WE ARE GETTING
22
BACK IS THE FLIES ON THE SCREEN DOOR . SO, I KIND OF FEEL
23 THAT OUR LOCAL CITIZENS WANT A CITY OF A RURAL NATURE
24
AND LESS CONGESTION . AND, SO, I LOOK BACK AT TRAFFIC AND
25 I SAY, HEY, LET' S KEEP THE REGIONAL TRAFFIC OUT OF OUR
26 CITY STREETS . WE ' VE GOT ENOUGH OF IT .
63
1 FROM THE STANDPOINT OF THE CITIZENS IN THE
2 REGION AROUND US, THEY ARE GOING TO LOOK AT OUR NEW SHOPPING
3 CENTER, REGIONAL CENTER, AS ;HAT THEY CAN BUY THERE, THE
4 FACILITIES AVAILABLE THERE, THE EASE OF INGRESS AND EGRESS
5 TO THAT CENTER. AGAIN, I THINK THAT ' S THE FREEWAY .
6 I KNOW MR. LAM SAID THAT WE SHOULDN ` T
T CONSIDER DESIGN, BUT I HAD TO CONSIDER THAT BECAUSE THAT
8 WAS PART OF THE PRESENTATION THAT THE LEWIS COMPANY MADE
9 WHEN THEY BROUGHT OUT TERRA VISTA, THAT WAS PART OF THE
10 VICTORIA PROJECT WHEN THE LYON PEOPLE BROUGHT THAT UP .
11 BOTH DEVELOPERS, AS THEY GAVE US THEIR PRESENTATIONS THE
12 OTHER NIGHT, ALLUDED TO SOME OF THIS DESIGN . SO, I ' VE
13 GOT TO THINK ABOUT DESIGN .
14 SORRY, JACK. I ' VE GOT TO USE DESIGN .
15 BOTH OF THESE PEOPLE CAME TO US WITH
16 DRAWINGS OF THE CONCEPTUAL DRAWINGS , THEY AREN' T WORKING
17 DRAWINGS . THAT' S WHAT WE ARE GOING TO HAVE, BUT ANYWAY,
18 THEY CAME TO US WITH SOME DRAWINGS , MR . LEWIS HAS HAD
19 DRAWINGS HERE TONIGHT. THEY SHOWED US A PAPER, A CONCEP-
20 TUAL PLAN OF WHAT THEY THOUGHT THAT THEY INERE GOING TO
21 BRING TO OUR CITY . AND I CAN ONLY SAY WHAT I SAW. I
22 1HEAN, YOU KNOW, I LOOK AT THOSE TWO PLANS . I LOOKED AT
23 THE HAHN PLAN, AND THE HAHN PLAN SAID THEY HAD TIED THEIR
24 REGIONAL CENTER IN WITH THEIR PLANNED COMMUNITY, WITH
25 THEIR LAKES, VICTORIA LAKES . I LOOKED AT THE HOMART, AND
26 IT DIDN' T SEEM TO TIE IN WITH TERRA VISTA. AND THAT
64
1 REALLY BOTHERED ME . I KNOW MR . LEWIS SAID -- BECAUSE I
2 ASKED THE QUESTION HOW COME YOU DIDNTT TIE IN THE GREEN-
3 BELT, AND THAT GREENBELT IN TERRA VISTA IS GOING TO BE
4 ONE OF THE FOCAL POINTS OF THE CITY -- AND HE SAID, YES,
5 IT WAS GOING TO BE; BUT THE DEVELOPER, AS HE DREW HIS
6 PLANS, OR THE DESIGNER FORGOT ABOUT THAT , BECAUSE WHAT
7 I SAW WAS A PAR€:ING LOT THAT WAS 365 DEGREES AROUND THIS
8 THING, AND I SAW THIS GREENBELT. AND I KNOW THAT WHEN
9 TERRA VISTA WAS FIRST PRESENTED TO THE CITY, WE SAW A
10 CONCEPTUAL PLAN AT THAT TIME OF WHAT A SHOPPING CENTER
11 MIGHT BE, AND THAT GREENBELT WAS BROUGHT ALL THE WAY DOWN
12 TO HAVEN AVENUE, AND I REMEMBER SITTING HERE AT THE
13 COMMISSION WHEN WE SAW IT AND WE ALL SAID -rI-IAT' S NEAT,
14 THAT ' S REALLY NEAT . AND I WAS EXCITED ABOUT THAT, BUT
15 I DIDN' T SEE THAT 011 THE PLAN THAT WAS PRESENTED THE OTHER
16 NIGHT. AND, AGAIN, I ' LL SAY MR. LEWIS SAID, HEY, THAT CAN
17 BE DESIGNED IN. BUT IT WASN ' T . AND THIS COMMISSION SAID
18 THAT WE THOUGHT THAT HAVEN AND FOOTHILL SHOULD BE ONE OF
19 THE FOCAL POINTS OF Ti-€E CITY . THE DESIGN THAT CAME IN
20 HAD A PARKING LOT ON THAT AREA WITH NO GREENBELT. THAT
21 BOTHERED ME . I CAN' T HELP IT.
22 THE C .A. C . OF WHICH I 'M A MEMBER HAS SAID
23 WE OUGHT TO HAVE A DUAL NUCLEI I N THE CITY . I KIND OF HAVE
24 TO AGREE WITH THAT, I REALLY DON' T KNOW THAT I LIKE THE
25 CONCEPT OF A SHOPPING CENTER WHERE PEOPLE ARE SHOPPING AND
26 GOING TO FOR THE IDEA OF SHOPPING; HAVING CITY OFFICES,
65
1 A LIBRARY, WHATEVER YOU ENVISION AS YOUR CITY CENTER ,
2 AND, SO, I KIND OF HAPPEN TO LIKE THE DUAL NUCLEI . AND
3 I CAN' T IMAGINE A BETTER PLACE FOR THAT, THE OTHER
4 NUCLEUS OF THIS CITY, THAN ON HAVEN AND FOOTf•iILL. BUT
5 I ' M NOT SURE THAT THE TWO FIT TOGETHER, THE REGIONAL
6 CENTER AND THE CITY FACILITY . THE C .A. C . DOESN' T SEE
7 THAT . THE PEOPLE THAT I TALI: TO HAVE NOT SAID THAT .
8 COMMUNITY BENEFITS ARE. ANOTHER THING I
9 THOUGHT ABOUT . ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THE HAHN PEOPLE
10 TALKED ABOUT WAS THE TOWN CENTER CONCEPT, PUBLIC ROOMS
11 FOR REGIONAL USE, FOR CITY USE, DAY CARE CENTER FOR
12 PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING SHOPPING, A MUSEUM, GALLERY FACILITY,
13 AND A GOOD SHOPPING FACILITY . THE OTHER DEVELOPER CAME IN
14 AND TALKED ABOUT THE SHOPPING FACILITY . HE DIDN' T SAY TOO
15 MUCH ABOUT PUBLIC ROOMS, MUSEUMS, AND OTHER AMENITIES .
16 IN FACT, I ASKE❑ THE QUESTION OF HIM. I SAID WHAT ABOUT
17 PUBLIC A1,1ENITIES? ONE OF THE YOUNG LADIES IN THE GROUP
18 SAID THEY DIDN ' T KNOW WHO WAS GOING TO ANSWER THAT QUESTIO J.
19 THEY SAID 4qE DON' T DO THAT ANYMORE , THEN SOMEBODY SAID,
20 WELL, GEE, WE' LL DO ANYTHING YOU ASK FOR. WE HAVEN ' T
21 ASKED FOR ANYTHING. ONE DEVELOPER SHOWED US AND, I THOUGHT,
22 HIGHLIGHTED THAT; THE OTHER DEVELOPER SAID TO ASK US . AND
23 WE ARE NOT PLANNERS, WE ARE DECISION MAKERS, I GUESS .
24 I THOUGHT, AS PRESENTED, HOMART' S CONCEPT
25 WAS ONE OF SHOPPING, HAHN' S CONCEPT 4IAS NOT ONLY ONE OF
26 SHOPPING, BUT SOME COM),4UNITY INVOLVEIAEI',4T, SOME THINGS THAT
66
1 THE COMMUNITY COULD DO THERE WITHIN THE SHOPPING CENTER .
2 AND, SO, THOSE ARE ALL THE THINGS I HAD TO THINK ABOUT.
3 WITH THAT, I ` D LIKE TO TAKE A BREAK .
4 MR . REMPEL: ANY OTHER COMMENTS? WHAT IaM
5 GOING TO DO, IF THERE AREN' T ANY OTHER COMMENTS, IrM
6 GOING TO TAKE A SHORT BREAK.
7 MR . DAHL : IrLL REACT WITH A FEW COMMENTS AFTER
8 ICE GET THROUGH WITH OUR BREAK . IsD LIKE TO BREAK TO TAKE
9 CARE OF SOMETHING ELSE FIRST .
10 MR . REMPEL : ALL RIGHT . VERY WELL. WELL
11 HAVE. A FEW MINUTES ' BREAK .
12 (BRIEF RECESS TAKEN . )
13 MR . REMPEL : ALL RIGHT. I THINK AS WE ADJOURNED ,
14 MR . DAHL WANTED TO HAVE A FEW MINUTES , WE ' LL GO TO HIM
15 FIRST, THEN I s LL OPEN IT UP AGAIN TO THE AUDIENCE OUT
16 THERE .
17 MR. DAHL : THE 014LY COMMENTS THAT I ' D LIKE TO
18 MAKE, IN LISTENING TO WHAT THE REST OF 'THE COMMISSIONERS
19 HAVE HAD TO SAY REGARD114G THE CENTERS PROPOSED, I DO
20 BELIEVE THAT IF I REMEMBER RIGHT IN LOOKING AT THE CENTERS
21 PROPOSED BY BOTH HAHN AND BY HOMART, THAT BOTH OF THEM
22 WERE VERY, VERY SIMILAR IN DESIGN, VERY, VERY SIMILAR
23 IN WHAT THEY INTENDED TO DO . BOTH OF THEM OFFERED AN
24 ICE ARENA AND OTHER PUBLIC—TYPE FACILITIES . SO, FROM
25 THAT S TANDPOI NIT AND LOOKING AT THE TWO CENTERS, I REALLY
26 HAVE NO OBJECTION TO EITHER ONE OF THEM FROM THE STANDPOINT
67
1 OF THE ACTUAL. CENTER.
2 HERE, AGAIN, ItD LIKE TO GET BACK TO THE
3 TRAFFIC POINT OF VIEW. HERE, I HAVE TO LOOM AT WHAT' S
4 GOING ON OR WHAT WOULD BE TAKING PLACE IF WE HAD THE QUOTE
5 2, 000 CARS PER HOUR TRAVELING TO AND FROM THE CENTERS .
6 TAKING THE CENTER AT THE CORNER OF HAVEN AND FOOTHILL,
7 LOOKING AT THE DAON PROJECT, WHICH MOULD BE FROM FOOTHILL
8 AND HAVEN SOUTH AND TO THE EAST OF HAVEN, THIS IS A LARGE
9 PROJECT WITH MOST OF THE TRAFFIC FEEDING FROM HAVEN .INTO
10 THE PROJECT , AS I SAW IT, MOST OF THE EGRESS AND INGRESS
11 WOULD ALSO COME OFF OF ARROW ROUTE . I SEE THAT THERE
12 WOULD BE POSSIBLE TRAFFIC IMPACTION DURING PEAK RUSH
13 HOURS, WHICH WOULD BE THE 4: 30 TO 5 : 30 PERIOD. THERE
14 WOULD ALSO PROBABLY BE AN IMPACTION IN THAT LOWER AREA
15 BELOW FOOTHILL BETWEEN THE HOURS OF 8 : 30 AND 9 : 30 IN
16 THE MORNING . LOOKING AT WHAT MOULD BE TRAVELING TO THE
17 CENTERS AT EITHER LOCATION, AS BOTH PARTIES HAVE STATED,
1s THEIR DRAWING POWER IN TERMS OF SHOPPERS WILL BE 40
19 PERCENT PLUS, PERHAPS EVEN MORE . IN FACT, I BELIEVE MORE
20 BECAUSE BOTH PARTIES AGREE THAT THE SHOPPERS THAT ARE THE
21 CLOSEST TO THE CENTER WILL HAVE THE' TENDENCY TO SHOP THAT
22 CENTER ON A MORE FREQUENT BASIS . WE WILL NOT ELIMINATE
23 NOR WILL WE REALLY SUBSTANTIALLY CUT DOWN THE SURFACE
24
STREET TRAFFIC TO AND FROM, GOING FROM THE WEST INTO THE
25 CENTERS, NO MATTER WHERE THE CENTER IS, FOR THE SIMPLE
26 REASON THAT COMING FROM UPLAND AND FROM THE WEST RANCHO
�S
1 CUCAMONGA AREA IS WHERE THE LARGEST POPULATION LIES AND
2 THIS IS WHERE YOU ARE LOOKING AT, YOUR 40 TO 50 PERCENT
3 TRAFFIC ON YOUR SURFACE STREETS . SO, YOU ARE LOOKING AT,
4 ROUGHLY, ACCORDING TO MY FIGURES -- AND I MAY BE WRONG;
5 I ` M TRYING TO USE THEIR FUGURES AS OFTEN AS I CAN -- YOU
6 ARE LOOKING AT BETWEEN 800 AND A THOUSAND CARS PER HOUR
7 UTILIZING OUR SURFACE STREETS -- BASELINE, FOOTHILL OR,
8 PERHAPS, ARROW, AND COMING UP FROM HAVEN . THEREFORE,
9 LOOKING AT IT FROM THE TRAFFIC STANDPOINT AND UTILIZATION
10 OF OUR SURFACE STREETS, FROM THE WEST, I CAN SEE NO DIF--
11 FERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO PROJECTS .
12 NOW, LOOKING AT IT FROM THE SOUTH AND
13 FROM THE EAST, THERE IS NO DOUBT THAT THERE WILL BE
14 SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCE BETWEEN TRAFFIC COMING FROM THE
15 EAST, FROM FOOTHILL, THE TWO MILES THAT THEY WOULD HAVE
16 TO CROSS IN ORDER TO GET TO THE PROJECT AT HAVEN AND
17 FOOTHILL, WHEREBY YOU WOULD HAVE. A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF
18 IMPACTION. YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT, ROUGHLY,, 800, 900 CARS
19 PER HOUR. BUT HERE, AGAIN, KITH THE PROPER ENTRANCES, THAT
20 TRAFFIC WOULD NOT EVEN REACH THE HAVENI INTERSECTION . IT
21 WOULD DUMP INTO TINE SHOPPING CENTER BEFORE IT EVER
22 REACHED HAVEN. LOOKI P1G AT IT FROM THE SOUTH, AS I SAID
23 BEFORE, I FIRMLY BELIEVE THAT, IF I WAS TRAVELING FROM
24 ONTARIO AREA, MONTCLAIR AREA, GOING TO THIS CENTER, I
25
WOULD NOT COME UP HAVEN AND GET OFF THE SAN BERNARDINO
26 FREEWAY . I WOULD REMAIN ON THE SAN BERNARDINO FREEWAY
69
1 TO THE DEVORE FREEWAY AND THE DEVORE FREEWAY TO THE FOOT-
2 HILL FREEWAY, AND I WOULD GO WEST ON FOOTHILL TO THE
3 CENTER. IN EITHER CASE, THIS DOES NOT, AGAIN, IMPACT THAT
4 CORDER, THAT INTERSECTION.
5 THAT INTERSECTION, H0WEVER, AT THE CORNER
6 OF HAVEN AND FOOTHILL WILL BE IMPACTED WITH A MINIMUM OF
7 800 TO A THOUSAND CARS PER HOUR NO MATTER !THERE YOU LOCATE
8 THE SITE . IF YOU HAVE THE SITE AT FOOTHILL AND DEVORE
9 FREEWAY, THOSE COMING FROM UPLAND, THOSE COMING FROM RANCH
10 CUCAMONGA --- WHICH AMOUNTS TO, ROUGHLY, 40 PERCENT OF THOSE
11 SHOPPERS COMING IN ON A DAILY BASIS -- AND GIVEN THE
12 FIGURES OF THE 2, 000, IT MEANS THAT WE WOULD HAVE A
13 THOUSAND TRAVELING OUR SURFACE STREETS TO THOSE AREAS .
14 YOU CAN ' T GET AWAY FROM THAT. THERE IS NO kAY . SO, I
15 CAN' T UTILIZE TRAFFIC AS MY MAIN BASIS FOR MAKING A DECI-
16 SION AS TO jgHAT I 1-IOULD LIKE TO RECOMMEND TO T -IE COUNCIL .
17 MY NEXT THING IS I WOULD LIKE TO SEE A
18 COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT WITH A REGIONAL CENTER. NOW, I
19 HAVE MIXED EMOTIONS ON THIS . MR. LEWIS BROUGHT Il\l SOME
20 TIHOUSA14D SIGNATURES, WHICH I DON' T THINK CAN BE IGNORED .
21 AND I TAKE IT AT HIS WORD WHAT THERE WAS ONLY 200 OR 300
22 THAT DECLINED TO SIGN . THIS HAS TO BE TAKEN INTO CON-
23 SIDERATION, BECAUSE, AFTER ALL, WE DO HAVE TO LOOK TO THE
24 PEOPLE OF OUR COMMUNITY THAT WE SERVE , THERE IS OTHER
25 THINGS, THOUGH, THAT HAVE TO BE TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION
26 AS WELL. WHAT WILL THIS MEAN IN TERMS OF TRAFFIC TO AND
70
1 FROM OUR CITY CENTERS? I HAVE NOT HEARD ANY INDICATION
2 OF WHAT OUR CIVIC CENTERS WOULD UTILIZE IN TERMS OF
3 TRAFFIC AND NUMBER OF PEOPLE, WHERE OUR CITY WILL BE AT
4 THAT POINT, 1934, IN TERMS OF EMPLOYEES, WHAT TYPES OF
5 CIVIC BUILDINGS THAT WE WILL BE HOUSING AT THAT POINT IN
6 TIME, WHAT THE USE WILL BE FOR OUR CIVIC OFFICES, WHETHER
7 WE ' LL HAVE COURTHOUSES . I DON ' T REALLY KNOW . THAT IS
8 SOMETHING THAT HAS TO BE TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION BECAUSE
9 WE ARE LOOKING WELL INTO THE FUTURE, AND ' 84 IS A TIME
10 THAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT COMPLETING A CENTER . BUT THAT
11 CENTER JUST STARTS AT THAT POINT . THE IMPACTION GROWS
12 FROMI THERE . THERE' S TOO MANY THINGS TO BE TAKEN INTO
13 CONSIDERATION, AND I HAVE GOT TO HEAR MORE INFORMATION .
14 I DO KNOW THAT I HAVE SOME CONCERN FOR
15 THE OTHER TWO-THIRDS OF THE. POPULATION THAT HAVEN ' T THE
16 FINANCIAL ABILITY TO UTILIZE HIGH--LINE SHOPPING CENTERS .
17 1 THINK A HIGH---LINE SHOPPING CENTER IS A BEAUTIFUL THING
18 TO HAVE IN A COMMUNITY; BUT I DO KNOG,1 THAT, NOT ONLY
19 !'MYSELF AND MY FELLOW COMMISSIONERS, BUT THE COUNCIL AS
20 WELL. HAS INDICATED QUITE STRONGLY THAT WE ARE ALSO
21 EXTREMELY INTERESTED IN WHAT HAPPENS TO OUR MIDDLE- AND
22
LOVIER- INCOME PEOPLE . WE NEED TO PROVIDE VIABLE PLACES
23
FOR THEM TO SHOP AND TO OBTAIN THE MERCHANDISING GOODS
24 THAT THEY WANT .
25 I WOULD LIKE TO SAY 1 HAVEN ' T REALLY MADE
26 A FIRM DECISION ON THIS . I ' D LIKE TO HEAR JUST A LITTLE
71
1 BIT MORE ABOUT WHAT KIND OF INPUT MY FELLOW COMMISSIONERS
2 WOULD LIKE TO MAKE, AND A LITTLE BIT MORE INPUT, PERHAPS,
3 FROM THE AUDIENCE . AND WITH THAT, I ' LL PASS IT ON .
4 MR. REMPEL : ANYTHING MORE BEFORE I OPEN IT UP
5 AGAIN TO THE AUDIENCE?
6 MR. DAHL : NO. I ' D LIKE TO PASS IT OUT .
7 MR. REMPEL : ANY OF THE OTHER COMMISSIONERS?
8 MS , JONES : NO. LET' S HEAR SOME MORE FROM THE
9 AUDIENCE .
10 MR . REMPEL: LET ' S KEEP THIS VERY BRIEF FROM
11 THE FEW PARTIES INVOLVED; THEN IF THERE IS MORE INPUT FROM
12 THE AUDIENCE . BECAUSE I THINK WHILE, MONITARILY, BOTH THE
13 PARTIES INVOLVED ARE REALLY TOTALLY INVOLVED IN IT, I
14 THINE: THAT MORE SO, THOUGH, THE COMMUNITY AND THE FUTURE,
15 THAT ALSO IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT IN THE DECISIONS, THE
16 RECOMMENDATIONS THAT WE MAKE HERE TONIGHT.
17 MR. LEWIS : MR. CHAIRMAN, MEMBERS OF THE
18 COMMISSION, EXCUSE ME .
19 JERRY, COULD YOU SHOW THE RENDERING AND
20
THAT .
21 I THINK THERE IS SOME MISCONCEPTIONS . IF
22 I ' M WRONG, I ' LL APOLOGIZE .
23 COMMISSIONER TOLSTOY, THE CORNER OF HAVEN
24 AND FOOTHILL, WHICH IS THE LOWER CORNER OF THE PICTURE,
25 IF YOU NOTICE, THAT ' S PURE GREEN . NOW, THAT' S THE
26 CHOICEST PART OF THE ENTIRE PROPERTY . THAT' S WHERE MOST
72
1 DEVELOPERS WOULD PUT A BANK, A RESTAURANT OR SOMETHING
2 ELSE; AND CONSIDERING WHAT WE THOUGHT THE COMMUNITY WISHES,
3 WE LEFT IT GREEN, AS THE EXTENSION OF THE GREENBELT THAT
4 RUNS ALL THE WAY THROUGH TERRA VISTA. NOW, WE CAN ' T RUIN
5 THE GREENBELT THROUGH THE DEPARTMENT STORES, BUT WE CARRY
6 IT THROUGH WHERE IT WOULD TERMINATE, WHICH IS RIGHT AT
YOUR CORNER . I THINE: THAT GIVES THE BEST SHOWPLACE AS
8 FAR AS THE CITY APPEARANCE IS CONCERNED. IT' S GREEN . I
9 KNOW WE COULD SELL THOSE CORNERS TO BANKS OR ANYBODY ELSE .
10 THAT ' S CHOICE LAND, AND WE DON' T SHOW DEVELOPMENT THERE .
11 WE' RE PROPOSING GREEN, AND ALL YOU SEE IS A GIA14T PARKING
12 LOT . BUT LOOK AT THE GREEN DOWN AT THE BOTTOM THERE .
13 AGAIN, THERE' S JUST AN AWFUL LOT OF TREES AND GRASS THAT
14 WE SHOW TRYING TO MAKE THAT LOOK RIGHT.
15 NOW, CHAIRMAN REMPEL, I TRIED TO FOLLOW
16
YOUR FIGURES ON THE TRAFFIC, AND I AGREE IF YOU HAD CARS
17 STACKED UP AT FOOTHILL 25, 30 AT A TIME, THAT WOULD BE
18
BAD. BUT IF I FOLLOWED YOU, AND I ' LL APOLOGIZE IF I ' M
19 WRONG, I THINK YOUR FIGURES ASSUMED ALL THE TRAFFIC
20 DUMPED OUT FOOTHILL AT THE ONE POINT. 1lE HAVE A LOT OF
21 ENTRANCES THERE . THERE ' S TWO WAYS OUT ON HAVEN . WE
22 WEREN' T GOING TO PROVIDE FOR CHURCH STREET CROSSING,
23 BECAUSE THERE ' S AN EXPENSE CROSSING THE CHANNEL . SOME OF
24 YOUR STAFF, THE CITY ENGINEER AND THE PLANNING DIRECTOR,
25 SAID THAT WE": HAVE TO GET TRAFFIC OFF OF THAT INTERSECTION
26 AT FOOTHILL AND HAVEN , AND WE AGREED TO RUN CHURCH UP
73
1 ABOVE OUR CENTER . SO THAT' S ANOTHER WAY TO GET OUT OF IT.
2 AND WE THINK THERE tfdILL BE TRAFFIC . NOW, YOU DON ' T KNOW
3 HO;n! MANY HUNDREDS OR THOUSANDS OF CARS, BUT A LOT OF TRAFFIC
4 IS GOING TO GO OUT OF THERE AND EITHER GO WEST OR GO EAST
S ON CHURCH. EVENTUALLY WE ARE GOING TO HAVE 10, 000 FAMILIES
6 LIVING IN OUR PROJECT , THERE WILL BE 10, 000 OR MORE ON
7 VICTORIA, AND A WHOLE LOT OF SHOPPERS ARE GOING TO GO
8 THROUGH STREETS LIKE CHURCH . WE HAVE CLEVELAND RUNNING
9 UP THERE, AND WE THINK, AS PEOPLE LEAVE THE CENTER, AS
10 MANY OF THEM WILL GO OUT THE CLEVELAND WAY AS IN BETWEEN.
11 THAT WOULD IMPACT FOOTHILL . PLUS ONE MORE THING . ONE OF
12 YOUR PRELIMINARY SKETCHES THAT WAS BROUGHT IN HAD TWO
13 EXITS ONTO FOOTHILL; AND THE STAFF SAID, GEE, THAT' S TOO
14 MUCH, WE ' D RATHER HAVE ONE . BUT IF IT HELPS ON THE STACKING
15 UP AND ALL THAT, WE' LL BE GLAD TO PUT THE SECOND ONE BACK .
16 BUT WE TRY TO ACCOMMODATE THE STAFF SUGGESTIONS AS THEY
17 COME UP , I THINK IF YOU FIGURE WHATEVER NUMBER OF CARS
18 PER ;HOUR ARE, GOING TO LEAVE THE CENTER, THE TRAFFIC
19 SHOULDN' T PILE UP THE WAY YOU THINK .
20 THANK YOU.
21 OH, EXCUSE ME . I DID HAVE ONE OTHER POINT .
22 THERE ARE GOING TO BE A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT WORK IN THE
23 CENTER IN THAT FOUR--MILE SQUARE FEET, AND DAON WILL PROBABLY
24 HAVE SOME RESTAURANTS . BUT I THINK A WHOLE LOT OF THOSE
25 EMPLOYEES WILL WANT TO EAT AT THE HOMART CENTER. THEY
26 SHOWED PICTURES OF THE EATING FACILITIES THEY HAVE, AND I
74
1 THINK I WAS TOLD ONCE THAT ONE REASON THE CITY WANTS THE
2 CITY HALL NEXT TO THERE WAS THE EMPLOYEES WOULD LIKE TO
3 GO OUT AT NOON AND SHOP AND EAT IN THE CENTER . WE THINK
4 A WHOLE LOT OF PEOPLE WOULD WALK ACROSS THE STREET INTO
5 THIS CENTER; WHERE, IF THEY WANT TO GO OVER TO THE HAHN
6 SITE, THEY HAVE TO GET IN THEIR CAR AND DRIVE DOWN THERE
7 AND WE ' D HAVE MORE TRAFFIC ON FOOTHILL .
8 THANK YOU.
9 MR . HULINA : MR. CHAIRMAN, I ' D JUST LIKE TO ANSWE
10 A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS THAT MR . TOLSTOY RAISED.
11 MR. REMPEL : CERTAINLY .
12 MR . HULINA: I CERTAINLY HOPE THAT WE DIDN' T
13 GIVE THE IMPRESSION THAT WE WEREN ' T TALKING ABOUT A MAJOR
14 REGIONAL MALL, BECAUSE WITH A PROJECT THE SIZE OF 1 . 2
15 MILLION SQUARE FEET, WE DEFINITELY ARE TALKING ABOUT A MAJ0
16 REGIONAL MALL, AND I THINK WE ARE TALKING ABOUT IT IN THE
17 SAME KIND OF WAYS MR . HAHN IS TALKING ABOUT IT .
18 MY POINT EARLIER ABOUT HAVING AN INTEREST
19 IN BRINGING BOTH THE HIGH-FASHION STORES AND THE MASS
20 MERCHANT STORES, MAYBE I DIDN' T MAKE MYSELF CLEAR . BUT
21 AS I SAID, A SEARS AND WARDS, A PENNY ' S ARE A MASS MERCHANT
22 TYPE OF STORE . A ROBINSON ' S, A BULLOCKS, AND NORDSTROM' S
23 ARE A HIGH-FASHION STORE. AND NONE OF THESE SIX DEPARTMENT
24 STORES ARE PART OF THE FOUR THAT MR. HAHN HAD MENTIONED
25 THAT HE HAS PLANS TO PUT IN HIS CENTER, AND Ti- ERE ARE ONLY
26 TWO OTHER SPOTS LEFT. SO MY POINT IS, IF IN FACT HE PUTS
75
1 A MASS MERCHANT INTO HIS CENTER, WHICH HE NEEDS TO DO,
2 THERE IS ONLY ONE SPOT FOR A HIGH--FASHION CENTER . AND
3 OUR PLANS ARE TO START WITH THE ,'MASS MERCHANT AND ALSO
4 PROVIDE SPACE NECESSARY FOR TWO DEPARTMENT STORES FOR A
5 HIGH-FASHION CENTER .
6 THE SECOND POINT, IN TERMS OF PUBLIC
7 AMENITIES --- AND MR . TOLSTOY MENTIONED THAT MOLLY SOUTH
8 (SIC) DURING HER PRESENTATION MENTIONED THAT WE DON ' T DO
9 THAT ANYMORE --- HER POINT WAS THAT WE DISCUSSED, WHEN YOU
10 BUILD A SHOPPING CENTER IN CONJUNCTION WITH A CIVIC AND
11 CULTURAL. CENTER, WE PROVIDE FOR NECESSARY MEETING ROOMS
12 IN THE CIVIC AND CULTURAL CENTER RATHER THAN IN THE
13 SHOPPING CENTER, INSIDE OF IT; BECAUSE 4qE FOUND, FROM A
14 UTILIZATION STANDPOINT, THAT Tf-€E GENERAL PUBLIC CAN MUCH
15 BETTER UTILIZE THESE COMMUNITY ROOMS WHEN THEY ARE PART OF
16 THE ADJOINING FACILITY RATHER THAN INSIDE THE MALL ITSELF.
17 AND ONE OTHER POINT REGARDING THE ACTUAL
18 CIVIC AND CULTURAL CENTER , WHEN I STATED EARLIER, AND
19 WE MENTIONED THE OTHER EVENING THAT WE WOULD ENVISION THAT
20 TO INCLUDE -- IT COULD BE A THEATER-PLAYHOUSE-AUDITORIUM
21 TYPE OF FACILITY LIKE IN BREA, AN ART GALLERY LIKE IN
22 BREA, T. V. STUDIOS SIMILAR, LIBRARY AND MEETING ROOMS,
23 AS WELL AS THE CITY OFFICES . AND THIS IS WIHAT WE ARE
24 TALKING ABOUT . WE ARE NOT JUST TALKING ABOUT MEETING
25 ROOMS, DAY CARE CENTER. WE ARE TALKING MUCH, MUCH MORE
26 IE\4 TERMS OF WHAT MAKES UP A CIVIC CENTER AND CULTURAL
76
1 CENTER.
2 I HOPE THAT' S A LITTLE BST CLEARER . IF
3 THERE ' S ANY OTHER QUESTIONS, IrD BE HAPPY TO ANSWER THEM,
4 MR . REMPEL : ANYTHING, THEN, FROM LYON?
5 MR. FRYE : WELL, I WOULD LIKE TO INDICATE THAT
6 THE WILLIAM LYON COMPANY, AS YOU KNOW, HAS BEEN PRIMARILY
7 A RESIDEN"fIAL BUILDER. WE BUILT OUR REPUTATION ON THAT.
8 IN APPROACHING VICTORIA, WE FELT THAT THERE 15 A POTENTIAL
9 HERE THAT WENT BEYOND SOM` OF THE THINGS THAT WE ` VE
10 DIRECTLY BEEN INVOLVED WITH IN THE PAST. WE SAW TREMEN-
11 DOUS OPPORTUNITY FOR A PLANNED COMMUNITY THAT COULD CAPI-
12 TALIZE, WE FEEL, ON ALL OF THE GOALS AND ASPIRATIONS OF
13 THE COMMUNITY .
14 TO NAME A FEW THAT I THINK ARE ESSENTIAL,
15 WE THINK RANCHO CUCAMONGA WANTS TO RETAIN A RURAL FLAVOR
16 AND YET, ALSO, WANTS TO BE FINANCIALLY A VERY SOUND CITY .
17 I THINK RANCHO CUCAMONGA WANTS TO BE BALANCED . I THINK
18 THE CITY PERCEIVES AND RECOGNIZES THAT THE CITY IS TRULY
19 AT A GENUINE CROSSROADS AND HAS THE OPPORTUNITY THAT VERY
20 FEW CITIES EVER HAVE BEFORE THEM. YOU HAVE A DUAL FREEWAY
21 SYSTEM. YOU HAVE I- 10 TO THE SOUTH; YOU HAVE I-- 15 TO THE
22 EAST. YOU HAVE THE POSSIBILITY TO CAPITALIZE ON THAT
23 REGIONAL TRANSPORTATION SYSTEM BY LOCATING YOUR INDUSTRIAL
24 WHERE IT BELONGS, WHICH YOU HAVE, I BELIEVE, DECIDED WILL
25 PROBABLY GO ALONG THE I- 10 CORRIDOR. YOU HAVE THE CAPA-
26 BILITY WITH T,'-!E DEVORE, ANOTHER REGIONAL TRANSPORTATION
77
1 SYSTEM, TO LOCATE YOUR MAJOR COMMERCIAL ON THAT SYSTEM.
2 AS WE SEE IT AND AS WE ' VE ALWAYS SEEN IT,
3 THAT SHOULD CAST THE MOLD FOR THE CITY OF RANCHO CUCAMONGA .
4 WHAT YOU ARE LOOKING AT ARE NOT COMMUNITY FACILITIES AT
5 THIS TIME . YOU ARE LOOKING AT REGIONAL FACILITIES, AND
6 REGIONAL FACILITIES SHOULD GO WHERE THEY NATURALLY BELONG,
7 WHICH IS OIL A REGIONAL TRANSPORTATION SYSTEM . THE FACT
8 THAT, ON OCCASION, REGIONAL SHOPPING CENTERS ARE NOT ON
9 REGIONAL TRANSPORTATI0N SYSTEMS IS TRUE; BUT IF YOU CLOSEL
10 ANALYZE THOSE CASES, YOU' LL FIND THAT THE POPULATION AND
11 THE GROWTH IS NOT ON THE REGIONAL TRANSPORTATION SYSTEM .
12 PALM DESERT WAS BROUGHT UP AS A CASE . THERE ' S NO POPULA-
13 I"ION ALONG THE FREEWAY CORRIDOR IN PALM DESERT . NOW, I
14 THINK REGIONAL SHOPPING- CENTER DEVELOPERS LIKE TO LOCATE
15 WHERE THE MARKET IS . OBVIOUSLY, THAT' S THE KEY TO
16 SUCCESS . VIE ARE COMPETING IN THE CITY OF RANCHO CUCAMONGA
17 FOR A REGIONAL CENTER. .
18 NOW, I THINK THE CITY HAS TO CONTINUALLY
19 KEEP, AS YOUR PRIME MOTIVATING FACTOR, HOW DO YOU COMPETE
20 FOR A REGIONAL SHOPPING CENTER: NOW, THERE IS, PERHAPS,
21 A POSSIBILITY OF MORE SITES TO CONSIDER FOR A REGIONAL
22 THAN MUST CUCAMONGA. THERE ARE MORE ALTERNATIVES THAN
23 JUST THESE TWO . I THINK IF ANYONE WERE IN THIS ROOM
24 THOUGHT THAT THEY HAD ANOTHER COMPETING SITE IN TIME VALLEY
25 THAT COULD KNOCK OUT THE POSSIBILITY OF A CUCAMONGA SITE;
26 I THINK YOU' D -[AVE TO CONSIDER YOUR STRONGEST SITE WOULD
73
I BE ONE ON A FREEWAY . IF YOU LOOK AT THE NUMBER OR
2 REGIONAL CENTERS BUILT AND HOW MANY ARE ON A FREEWAY, ON
3 A REGIONAL TRANSPORTATION SYSTEM, NOT ON AN INTERNAL CITY
4 TRANSPORTATION SYSTEM, YOU` LL FIND THAT OVERWHELMINGLY
5 REGIONAL SHOPPING CENTERS ARE LOCATED ON REGIONAL ARTERIES
6 THERE IS JUST NO ARGUMENT THAT CAN OVERCOME EXPERIENCE,
7 AND THAT' S THE EXPERIENCE OF REGIONAL SHOPPING CENTER
8 DEVELOPMENT.
9 SO, WHEN WE LOOKED AT THE CITY OF RANCHO
10 CUCAMONGA AS SOMEONE WHO WANTS TO REALI7_E THE FULL POTEN-
11 TIAL THAT' S HERE, WE HAVE ALWAYS FELT THAT THE ONLY
12 LOGICAL SITE FOR A REGIONAL SHOPPING CENTER IS ON THE
13 DEVORE FREEWAY . IF YOU TRAVERSED I- 10 ON THE DEVORE,
14 THERE' S NOT MANY LOCATIONS WHERE YOU HAVE A HIGH VISI-
15 BILITY POSSIBILITY FROM BOTH A NORTH AND SOUTH DIRECTION .
16 NOW, THE HAHN SITE HAS HIGH VISIBILITY EITHER WAY .
17 I THIN, THE COA`4MUNITY GOALS OF WANTING A
18 REGIONAL MAKES SENSE FOR. THE COMMUNITY . I THINK THE
19 COMMUNITY GOALS OF WANTING TO BE URBAN AND YET SOMEHOW
20 WANTING TO 3E RURAL CAN 3E IN CONFLICT NfITH EACH OTHER.
21 I THINK TO ACCOMPLISH THOSE TWO GOALS, WHICH I BELIEVE
22 THE MAJORITY OF THE RESIDENTS OF RANCHO CUCAMONGA WANT,
23 YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE TO PICK A REGIONAL FACILITY AND PUT
24 I T IN A REGIONAL LOCATION . ANY OTHER CHOICE, IN MY MIND,
25 IS GOING TO CONFLICT WITH YOUR DESIRE TO BE RURAL AND TO
26 RETAIN THE FLAVOR THAT PEOPLE CAME HERE FOR . I THINK
79
I THAT THERE IS NO ALTERNATIVE BUT THE HAHN REGIONAL IF YOU
2 WANT TO KEEP THAT AS A PRIME GOAL.
3 I GUESS IF YOU THINK IN TERMS OF WIN OR
4 LOSE, I DON ' T SEE ANY MAJOR COMMUNITY GOAL THAT IS UP FOR
5 GRABS OR EVEN HAS THE POSSIBILITY OF BEING LOST BY CHOOSIN
6 THE HAHN REGIONAL. I SEE A LOT OF COMMUNITY GOALS, FRANKL
7 IN MY MIND, THAT ARE UP FOR GRABS IF YOU CHOOSE THE FOOT,i I L-
8 MAVEN SITE . THE FACT THAT YOU MAY OR MAY NOT BELIEVE THE
9 TRAFFIC WILL BE A PROBLEM IS SOMETHING YOU MAY NOT KNOW
10 FOR 20 OR 30 YEARS, BUT I ' LL GUARANTEE YOU THAT THE RISK
II OF TRAFFIC BEING A PROBLEM HAS GOT TO BE SUBSTANTIALLY
12 GREATER AT FOOTHILL AND HAVEN ,
13 I THINK THE ARGUMENT AND MIX OF THOSE
14 THINGS MAY OR MAY NOT BE APPROPRIATE AT THIS TII+'iE, BUT
15 WHAT I WANT TO EMPI-iAS I ZE ON THE COMMISSION IS YOU ARE
16 CASTING THE MOLD , I THINK IT' S IMPORTAN-f THAT YOU CAST
17 THE BEST MOLD WITH ALL OF YOUR GOALS IN MIND . I WOULD
18 SUPPOSE THAT THE HAI-IN SITE HAS THE CAPABILITY OF MOLDING
19 YOUR COMMUNITY GOALS BETTER THAN ANY OTHER SITE, AND WILL
20 NOT COMPROMISE ONE GOAL, AND IT DOESN # T EVEN HAVE THE
21 CAPABILITY OF COMPROMISING ANY OTHER GOALS . THE OTHER
22 SITE DOES . THE OTHER SITE HAS, IN MY MIND, REAL QUESTIONS
23 THAT CANNOT BE IGNORED, AND THE ANSWERS WILL NOT BE KNOWN
24 UNTIL IT' S ALL DONE . AND WHEN IT ' S ALL DOI•dE, IF THERE ' S
25
A PROBLEM, IT IS GOING TO BE VERY DIFFICULT TO CURE .
26
1 THINIC THAT THE HAHN CENTER; IN MY MIND,
80
1 IS REGIONAL, IT' S ALWAYS BEEN REGIONAL . I ' M NOT CONVINCED
2 THE OTHER SITE HAS BEEN CONCEIVED IN A REGIONAL ATMOSPHERE .
3 I THINK OUR ENDEAVOR IN VICTORIA HAS BEEN TO CREATE AN
4 OPPORTUNITY FOR PEOPLE TO LIVE IN A RURAL ATMOSPHERE .
5 THE CONCEPT HAS BEEN TO RETAIN A MAJOR CENTRAL. AMENITY
6 IN THE COMMUNITY THAT IS RURAL AND WILL STAY RURAL, AND
7 TO TIE THAT DIRECTLY INTO THE REGIONAL SUCH THAT THOSE
g RESIDENTS CAN ENJOY THE REGIONAL BUT FROM A RURAL VANTAGE"
g POINT. THE UNDUE OPPORTUNITY WITH THE HAHN SITE IS
10 THAT YOU CAN HAVE A REGIONAL FACILITY THAT DOES NOT IMPACT
11 THE CITY IN THE SAME WAY THAT MOST OF YOUR INDUSTRIAL
12 BEING LOCATED AT THE I- 10 GIVES YOU THE BE;,iEFIT OF JOBS
13 AND EMPLOYMENT WITHOUT IMPACTING THE LIVING AREAS OF YOUR
14 CITY . NOW, IF THE SITUATION WERE REVERSED AND YOU WERE
15 CONSIDERING WHETHER YOU SHOULD PUT INDUSTRIAL IN AN AREA
16 WHERE PEOPLE LIVE, I THINK IT WOULD BE VERY CLEAR; AND
17 I THINK THAT THIS,. TO ME, IS ALSO VERY CLEAR . I THINK
18 THAT THE CITIZENS ADVISORY COMMITTEE FEELS VERY STRONGLY
19 THAT THEY WANT CUCAMONGA TO HAVE A LOCAL IMAGE THAT SOME-
20 HOW COULD BE DRAWN ON THE HISTORY OF THE COMMUNITY . THE
21 PEOPLE COULD LO0K TO A CIVIC CENTER THAT SOMEHOW TIES TO
22 SOME ROUTES THAT THEY CAN UNDERSTAND AND THAT THEY CAN
23 RECALL. AND IDENTIFY WITH . I AGREE WITH MR . HAHN THAT A
24 REGIONAL SHOPPING CENTER HAS TO BE A REGIONAL S=IOPPING
25 CENTER AND NOT A CIVIC CENTER. THE TWO DON ' T JMIX. IF
26 YOU WANT A SUCCESSFUL REGIONAL, THEN YOU' VE GOT TO GO FOR
81
1 A SUCCESSFUL REGIONAL, AND THAT' S GOT TO BE YOUR. PRIME
2 AND FIRST CONSIDERATION . A CITY HALL DOES NOT DRAY,
3 REGIONAL TRAFFICp THEREFORE, I THINK THE POINT HAS BEEN
4 MADE THAT COMBINING THE TWO DOES NOT STRENGTHEN THE
5 REGIONAL CENTER . I THINK THAT ' S THE KEY CONCLUSION, IF
6 YOU WANT A REGIONAL CENTER, THEN YOU WANT THE STRONGER,
7 AND MOST SUCCESSFUL REGIONAL CENTER, THAT YOU CAN PUT
8 TOGETHER. A CITY HALL DOES NOT ADD TO THE VITALITY OF
9 A REGIONAL CENTER . A CITY HALL IS FOR THE CITY AND SHOULD
10 BE LOCATED FOR THE CITY AND NOT FOR A REGIONAL SHOPPING
11 CENTER.
12 I THINK I ' VE COVERED ALL THE POINTS I
13 CAN THINK OF. I THINK THE INTERFACING OF THE HAHN
14 CENTER TO THE VICTORIA PLAN, I BELIEVE, SHOWS THAT WE
15 HAVE PUT A LOT OF THOUGHT, EFFORT, AND SENSITIVITY INTO
16 THAT SO THAT YOU CAN GAIN THE BENEFITS OF A REGIONAL
17 FACILITY AND MAINTAIN A RURAL ATMOSPHERE . I THINK, IF
18 YOU WERE TO IMPLEMENT THAT AS CONCEIVED, IT 14OULD BE THE
19 MOST SUCCESSFUL ALTERNATIVE FOR THE CITY IN THE SHORT
20 TERM AND LONG TERM. AND I THANE; YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY
21 TO SPEAK TO YOU.
22 MR. REMPEL: OKAY . NOW, IS THERE ANY MORE
23 FROM THE AUDIENCE?
24 I WANT TO SEE FIRST IF THERE IS SOME NEW
25 PEOPLE WHO WANT TO SPEAK, T HEH I ' LL GIVE YOU YOUR CHANCE .
26 ARE THERE. ANY OTHERS THAT HAVEN' T HAD A
83
1 CENTER LOCATED IN .4 POSITION WHERE IT' S EQUALLY ACCESSIBLE
2 TO EVERYBODY IN THE CITY, OUR CITY.
3 NOW, IF SOMEBODY ELSE WANTS TO DRIVE FROM
4 UPLAND OR FONTANA OR SOMETHING, HEY, THAT' S FINE . BUT
5 I ' M VERY SELFISH. I 'M INTERESTED III THE CITY THAT I
6 LIVE IN AND THE PEOPLE WHO ARE LIVING IN MY CITY, AND
7 I ' M NOT REALLY THAT INTERESTED IN THE PEOPLE WHO ARE OUT--
8 SIDE OF IT . I 'M MORE CONCERNED WITH THE PEOPLE WITHIN
9 OUR CITY . THE IDEA OF HAVING --- I CAN' T SEE A CIVIC
10 CENTER LOCATED 30 FEET AWAY FROM A SHOPPING CENTER, BUT
11 THE AMOUNT OF LAND IN THE AREA WE ARE TALKING ABOUT FROM
12 THE CORNIER OF MAVEN AND FOOTHILL UP TO BASELINE IS
13 BETTER THAN A MILE . IF WE HAVE THE CIVIC CENTER AND THE
14 SHOPPING CENTER LOCATED SOMEPLACE II\1 THIS AREA ALONG HAVEN,
16 HAVEN! SEEMS TO BE A CENTRAL AREA FOR THE CITY . TO PUT
16 THESE FACILITIES, THE CIVIC CENTER FACILITIES, THE
17 SHOPPING CENTER FACILITIES, EQUALLY ACCESSIBLE TO EVERY--
18 BODY WITHIN THE CITY TO ME SEEMS TO BE VERY BENEFICIAL
19 ESPECIALLY OVER A LONG, LONG PERIOD OF TIME .
20 AND OVER HERE WE HAVE OUR LOWER DENSITY
21 IN THE WIND R0W AND EVERYTHING OVER IN ETIWANDA. NOW,
22 WHEN THE MASTER PLAN b,AS PASSED, THE PLANNING COMMISSION)
23 GOT A. LOT OF PEOPLE FROM ETIWANDA THAT REALLY NANTED TO
24 KEEP THIS LOB^! DENSITY OVER THERE AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE,
25 WHICH IS WHY, I UNDERSTAND THAT IT WAS DONE THIS WAY .
26 NOW, ALL OF A SUDDEN YOU ARE GOING TO THROW A REGIONAL
AND THERE GOES THE LOWb=NSITY .
1 SHOPPING CENTER OVER THERE
2 IT SEEMS TO CONFLICT WITH THE ORIGINAL CONCEPT THAT THE
3 MASTER PLAN HAD WHEN IT WAS FIRST ADOPTED.
4 THANK YOU .
5 MR. REMPEL : ANY OTHERS?
6 YES?
7 MR . ANDERSON : ARNOLD ANDERSON, A RESIDENT OF
8 THE COMMUNITY .
9 IT SEEMS TO ME THAT ONE OF THE THINGS
10 THAT HAS TO BE DISCOUNTED, POSSIBLY, IS THE FACT THAT
11 THIS CENTER IS GOING TO BE A CONVENIENCE TO THE PEOPLE
12 OF THE COMMUNITY . AND SIMPLY BY LOOKING AT THE AERIAL
13 PHOTO WE HAVE ON THE WALL, THE COMMUNITY HAS STARTED
14 FROM THE WEST AND IS GROWING TO THE EAST . AND THIS CENTER
15 WILL PROBABLY BE THE MOST CONVENIENT LOCATI0N -- AND I ' M
16 TALKING IN TERMS OF TERRA VISTA CENTER -- PROBABLY THE
17 MOST CONVENIENT LOCATION FOR THE PEOPLE OF THE COMMUNITY .
18 IT WOULD SAVE THEM TIME AND TRANSPORTATION . AND TRANSPOR-
19 TATION HAS BEEN A WELL--DISCUSSED ITEM. 20, 000 CARS A
20 DAY IS A LOT OF CARS, BUT I DON' T THINK THERE ' S MUCH
21 DIFFERENCE WHETHER YOU SPILL THEM OFF OF A FREEWAY TO
22 GET INTO A SHOPPING CENTER OR CARRY THEM OVER SURFACE
23 STREETS . I CAN IMAGINE THAT,SAT, IF WE WERE GOING TO ATTEND
24 THE CENTER, WE ' D PROBABLY COME OUT BASE LINE COMING FROM
25 1-1Y HOME. . IF I ' M COMING FROM THE OFFICE; I ' D PROBABLY
26 COME UP ARCHIBALD AND HAVEN AND !,SANDER OVER.
35
1 I JUST WONDER HOW MANY PEOPLE WILL ACTUALL
2 BE COMING OFF OF THAT FREEWAY INTO THE SHOPPING CENTER,
3 WHICHEVER LOCATION IS CHOSEN . AND I WOULD CERTAINLY FAVOR
4 THE CLOSE LOCATION .
5 THANK YOU.
6 JAR. REMPEL : ARE THERE ANY OTHERS?
7 (NO RESPONSE . )
8 MR . REMPEL : IF NOT, THEN WE WILL CLOSE IT
9 AGAIN. ARE THERE ANY FURTHER COMMENTS FROM THE COMMISSION?
10 (NO RESPONSE . )
11 MR . REMPEL: I WOULD LIKE TO ANSWER SOMETHING.
12 FIRST, I WANT TO ANSWER THE COMMENT MADE AS FAR AS THE
13 TRAFFIC . AS FAR AS THE NUMBER OF CARS HITTING THAT INTER—
14 SECTION, I WAS USING YOUR FIGURES EXACTLY OF CFO PERCENT
15 OF ALL THE TRAFFIC COMING UP HAVEN . THAT ' S THE EXACT
16 FIGURE THAT WAS Of� YOUR STUDY . BUT GETTING BACK, AGAIN,
17 'KE KEEP TALKING, AND I HAVE TO FEEL THAT TRAFFIC IS, AT
18 LEAST TO ME, ONE OF THE PRIME FACTORS IN THIS AREA. WE
19 KEEP HEARING, WELL, IN MAYBE 10 YEARS DOWN THE ROAD, WE
20 WON' T BE DRIVING CARS ANYMORE . THIS IS NOT FORESEEABLE
21 IN MY ESTIMATION . WE MAY NOT BE DRIVING THE BIG CARS
22 ANYMORE, BUT I THINK WE ° RE STILL GOI I`dG TO HAVE SOME
23
TYPE OF A VEHICLE . AND AS FAR AS THE CENTER, AGAIN, I
24
THINK, EVEN THOUGH SEVERAL PEOPLE HERE HAVE SAID THAT
26
THE CENTER i',lEEDS TO BE VIABLE MAINLY FOR OUR COMMUNITY,
26
1 WANT THAT CENTER VIABLE FOR OUR OWN COMMUNITY, BUT IF
86
1 THAT CENTER IS NOT ALSO VIABLE FOR A MUCH LARGER AREA, ITS
2 NOT VIABLE AT ALL . I THINK THIS HAS TO BE A FACTOR.
3 IF WE ARE GOING TO PUT SIX MAJORS, A
4 MILLION TWO HUNDRED THOUSAND SQUARE FEET IN ONE AREA, THE
5 CITY OF RANCHO CUCAMONGA, EVEN AT BUILDUP, IS NOT GOING
6 TO SUPPORT THAT CENTER. I THINK THAT WE HAVE TO LOOK AT
7 THE GREATER AREA, AND WE ARE NOT A LITTLE ISOLATED
8 COMMUNITY THAT CAN LIVE ON ITSELF . WE ARE A COMMUNITY
9 THAT IS PART OF A MUCH LARGER AREA,. 'AND AS OUR RESIDENTS
10 INCREASE, THAT INCREASE IS GOING TO BE TO THE EAST.
11 THERE ' S NO ROOM TO THE WEST. AND IT' S NOT JUST IN RANCHO
12 CUCAMONGA, IT' S ALSO IN FONTANA, IN RIALTO. NOW, WHEN
13 YOU DRAW THAT CIRCLE AND PUT THAT AREA OUTSIDE, I DON ' T
14 THINK THAT' S VIABLE . I THINK. THAT WHEN YOU TAKE THE
15 TRAFFIC FROM THE INDUSTRIAL AREA, AND IT WAS SAID HERE
16 TO DISCOUNT THE SCHOOL TRAFFIC --- I DON' T THINK YOU CAN
17 REALLY DISCOUNT, I THINK YOU CAN MINIMIZE PART OF IT, BUT
18 IT DOES ADD TO IT -- THEN ADD TO THAT COMMUTER TRAFFIC
19 THAT' S COMING IN, BECAUSE EVEN OUR OWN RESIDENTS, PROBABLY
20 30 TO 40 PERCENT OF OUR RESIDENTS EVEN AT BUILDUP ARE
21 STILL GOING TO BE DRIVING OUTSIDE OUR COMMUNITY . THEY ARE
22 GOING TO ALSO HAVE TO COME BACK INTO THIS AREA. I THINK
23 THE FREEWAY GIVES US THE BEST CHANCE OF SOME TYPE OF A
24 HIGH-DENSITY PEOPLE MOVER, HIGH-OCCUPANCY PEOPLE MOVER .
25 THE RAILROADS THAT WE HAVE HERE NOW, ESPECIALLY THE
26 PACIFIC ELECTRIC TRACKS, AS IT WAS CALLED IN YEARS GONE
27
1 BY, WHICH IS NOW A FART OF SOUTHERN PACIFIC,. REALLY IS
2 NOT A VIABLE TRACKAGE 'FOR COMMUTER SERVICE . THE COST OF
3 BRINGING THAT BACK UP SO THAT IT COULD BE A MAJOR PEOPLE
4 MOVER IN OUR TIME -- THE COST FACTOR RIGHT NOW IS
5 PROHIBITIVE .
6 AND, AGAIN, AS IT WAS BROUGHT OUT BY SEVERAL
7 OF THE COMMISSIONERS, I THINK THERE IS ROOM FOR ANOTHER
S CENTER AT THE HAVEN AND FOOTHILL AREA, BUT I DON' T THINK
9 THAT A REGIONAL CENTER IS REALLY VIABLE AT THAT AREA . I
10 THINK THAT A CENTER, THOUGH, WITH ITS PRIMARY APPEAL TO
11 RESIDENTS OF THE AREA ALONG WITH A CIVIC CENTER, I THINK
12 IS VIABLE TO OUR COMMUNITY AND NECESSARY FOR THE COMMUNITY .
13 BUT TO BRING TRAFFIC --- AND WHEN YOU ARE REALLY TALKING
14 ABOUT 3, 000 AND POSSIBLY MORE AS TIME GOES ON -- I THINK
15 THERE' S NO WAY WE ARE GOING TO PREDICT ANY OTHER TYPE OF
16 TRANSPORTATION IN THE NEXT 20 YEARS TO REPLACE THE AUTO .
17 I THINK IN THAT PERIOD OF TIME, THE FIGURE WE ARE GOING TO
18 HAVE IS UP TO 40, 000 CARS PER HOUR WHEN THAT CENTER IS
19 TOTALLY UTILIZED . I THINK THAT ' S AN UNBELIEVABLE AMOUNT
20 OF TRAFFIC COMING INTO THAT SMALL AREA OF OUR CITY, AND
21 I THINK THAT WE HAVE TO REALIZE THAT THAT IS NOT POSSIBLE
22 FOR FOOTHILL AND HAVEN TO HOLD . AND THEREtS NO OTHER WAY,
23 REALLY, THAT THAT TRAFFIC IS GOING TO GET TO ANY OTHER
24 PLACE . WE CAN SAY THAT WE ARE GOING TO MOVE THEM TO SOME
25 OTHER PLACE, BUT PEOPLE ARE GOING TO TAKE THE SHORTEST
26 ROUTE . WHEN THEY COME FROM THE SOUTH, FROM THE. SOUTHERN
88
1 PART OF ONTARIO, THEY ARE NOT GOING TO GET ONTO THAT
2 FREEWAY . AND THEN YOU START IMPACTING THAT TRAFFIC INTO
3 AN INDUSTRIAL AREA THAT HAS ITS OWN TRAFFIC -- ITS OWN
4 TRUCKS, SUPPLIES, RAILROAD TRACKS, BUILDINGS, UNDERPASSES
5 AND OVERPASSES OVER THOSE --- I THINK YOU' LL START TO SEE
6 THE COST FIGURES THAT ARE GOI€`JG TO COME UPON THIS CITY .
7 AND IN THE FORESEEABLE FUTURE, THERE ' S NO WAY TO MEET
T7 8 THOSE COST FIGURES .
9 MS . JONES : MR. CHAIRMAN, THE CITIZENS ADVISORY
10 COMMITTEE HAS EXPRESSED THEIR PHILOSOPHY. THEY ' VE WORKED
11 VERY, VERY HARD AT QUITE A FEW MEETINGS, AND I ' VE BEEN TO
12 MOST OF THEM. I REALLY FEEL THAT THEY ARE EXPRESSING THE
13 CITIZENS ' COMMITMENT ON THIS SITE, AND IF THE OTHER
14 COMMISSIONERS HAVE NOTHING ELSE TO ADD, I 'M PREPARED TO
15 MAKE A €IOTI ON .
16 MR. GARC I A: COMMISSIONER JONES, I THINK THAT
17 THIS ISSUE IS TOO CRITICAL TO RUSH IT AT THIS PRESENT
18 TIME . I THINK THERE ' S SO MANY THINGS ON OUR MIND THAT
19 WE SHOULD DISCUSS, IN MY OPINION, TO BE CLARIFIED. I
20 THINK THIS IS ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT DECISIONS THAT
21 WELL EVER MAKE TONIGHT, AND I ' ll NOT TRYING TO SIMPLIFY
22 IT . BUT I THINK THAT THERE IS SOME POINT OF DISCUSSION
23 BROUGHT UP .
24 ONE IS THE FACT THAT, FOR THE PAST TWO
25 YEARS WHEN WE WORK ON THE COMMISSION AND THE GENERAL
26 PLAN ISSUES, IF I RECALL VERY WELL, LOOKING A-f THE
S9
1 ORIGINAL DATA OF THE OLDTI111ERS AND THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN
2 THIS COMMUNITY, THEY HAVE A CONCEPT OF AN IMAGE THAT
3 THIS CITY SHOULD HAVE OF LOCAL LEVELS AND REGIONAL LEVELS .
4 AT THAT TIME THE RURAL ASPECT WAS BROUGHT UP MANY TIMES,
5 BUT NOBODY SEEMED TO DEFINE THAT, WHAT IT REALLY MEANT
6 TO THE OLD RESIDENTS OF THIS COMMUNITY VERSUS THE NEW
7 RESIDENTS THAT ARE CONSTANTLY MOVING TO OUR CITY. I FEEL
8 THAT THE CONCEPT THAT THE OLD RESIDENTS ENVISION AND THE
9 NEW ONES SEEM TO DIFFER IN OPINIONS IN! TERMS OF OUR
10 DECISION-MAKING PROCESS REGARDING THE LAND USES WITHIN
11 THE CITY . AND I ' D LIKE TO POINT OUT THE FACT THAT WE ARE
12 PROJECTING AN INDUSTRIAL AREA THAT WILL BE, AT A REGIONAL
13 LEVEL, RADIATING 70, 000 WORKERS . I FEEL THAT IF WE ARE
14 GOING TO IMPLEMENT HOUSING FOR THESE PEOPLE TO LIVE IN
15 OUR COMMUNITY AND WORK AND SHOP, THE BASIC ISSUE OF RURAL
16 IS NO LONGER APPLICABLE . I THINK THAT HIGH DENSITY IS
17 GOING TO BE NECESSARY JUST BY THE MERE FACT THAT SINGLE-
18 TYPE HOMES AND ONE-ACRE-TYPE OF ENVIRONMENT IS JUST OUT
19 THE WINDOW AND BEYOND THE REACH OF THE AVERAGE AMERICAN
20 SUCH AS MYSELF. I DON ' T THINK THAT THAT IS A VIABLE
21 POINT AT THIS POINT, AND ESPECIALLY WHEN WE BEGIN TO SEE
22 THE PROJECTS THAT ARE COMING OUT TO BE PRESENTED TO US
23 IN THE NEAR FUTURE, LIKE TERRA VISTA AND VICTORIA. 50,
24 I THINK THAT THE COMMISSION, WHEN WE MAKE DECISIONS AT
25
THIS LEVEL, WE SHOULD CONSIDER THAT, AND I ' D LIKE TO BRING
26 THEM TO YOUR ATTENTION.
90
1 SECONDLY IS THAT WE CONSTANTLY TALK ABOUT
2 THE FOCAL POINT WITHIN OUR COMMUNITY . THIS FOCAL POINT,
3 IF I UNDERSTOOD CORRECTLY, WAS TO UNIFY OUR THREE
4 COMMUNITIES . WE CONSTANTLY SEEM TO HEAR THAT THEY HAVE.
5 BEEN IGNORED . WE HAVE THE ALTA LOMA COMMUNITY, THE
6 CUCAMONGA COMMUNITY AND THE ETIWANDA COMMUNITY . IT SEEMS
7 TO ME THAT THIS COMMUNITY AND CITY SHOULD EVENTUALLY
8 MAKE A DECISION AND POLICY WHICH IS GOING TO UNIFY THESE
9 THREE COMMUNITIES . I THINIC THAT THE SENTIMENTS ARE STILL
10 HERE, ALTHOUGH, PERHAPS, ARE BEING OVERPOWERED BY THE NEW
11 RESIDENTS OF OUR COMMUNITY . BUT I THINK WE SHOULD LOOK
12 TO THE TRADITION OF THAT RANCHO CUCAMONGA WAS AND WHAT
13 IT SHOULD BE .
14 THE THIRD POINT WOULD BE THAT THIS
15 COMMISSION SHOULD MAKE ITS DETERMINATION ON THE DUAL
16 CONCEPT THAT WE WANT TO HAVE A SEPARATION OF THE DUAL
17 CONCEPT OF CIVIC AND CULTURE; AND LAW AND POLICE AMENITIES
18 SHOULD BE CENTRALIZED IN OUR COMMUNITY AND TOTALLY ELIMI-
19 NATE ANY TYPE OF USES THAT ARE NOT COMPATIBLE WITH THAT
20 AND DEDICATE OR ANALYZE THE ISSUE OF SHOPPING TO BE SOME-
21 PLACE WITHIN OUR COMMUNITY . AND IF THAT ' S AT THE REGIONAL
22 LEVEL, THEN I THINK IT' S SUBJECT TO DISCUSSION. IN MY
23 MIND, I 'M STILL NOT TOO SURE THAT THE ISSUE OF REGIONAL
24 -TRANSPORTATION VERSUS SHOPPERS AND HOUSES AND DEVELOPMENT
25 IN TERMS OF CENTRALIZING AND COMPACTNESS OF TRENDS OF OUR
26 SOCIETY ARE REALLY WELL ADDRESSED IN MY MIND .
91
1 I ' D LIKE TO SEE THAT WE HAVE A UNIQUE
2 OPPORTUNITY IN OUR COMMUNITY FOR THE FIRST TIME, I THINK,
3 IN MANY YEARS IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA IN WHICH THE BASIC
4 PRINCIPLE OF GROWTH AND PLANNING SHOULD BE DONE AS A
5 CENTROID AND SHOULD EVOLVE . NOW, WHAT THIS CE.NTROID
6 SHOULD BE, I THINK, IS SUBJECT TO DISCUSSION . MOST OF
7 THE CITIES THAT WE KNOW THAT HAVE CREATED TREMENDOUS
8 AMOUNT OF PROBLEMS BY TRYING TO DEVELOP IN OUTLYING AREAS,
9 ARE CONSTANTLY CREATING DETERIORATION WITHIN THE CENTRAL
10 CORE; AND, NOW, WE CAN SEE THE PROBLEMS THAT MANY CITIES
11 ARE FACING IN TRYING TO RESTORE THEIR ORIGINAL, CONCEPT ,
12 DO WE WISH TO HAVE THAT AND PROCRASTINATE THAT TYPE OF
13 CITY DEVELOPMENT, OR DO WE WISH TO TAKE A DIFFERENT LOOK
14 AND SAY HERE WE ARE AND LET ' S LOOfC AT RANCHO CUCAMONGA
15 AS A UNIQUE CITY AND LET' S LEARN AND IMPLEMENT FROM THE
16 MISTAKES THAT OTHER COMMUNITIES HAVE MADE?
17 I FEEL THAT, ALSO, ON BEHALF OF THE APPLI -
18 CANTS, THEY HAVE TWO POTENTIAL PROJECTS . WE HAVE TWO
19 BEAUTIFUL OPPORTUNITIES TO CREATE OUR CITY, AND 17D LIKE
20 TO SEE THAT THEY BOTH FEEL COMFORTABLE IN THEIR DEVELOP-
21 MENT, THAT THEY WILL BOTH HAVE AS MUCH INTEREST AND
22 CONTINUE TO COOPERATE WITH THE CITY . I DO NOT FEEL, IF
23 I WERE IN THE POSITION OF A PROPENENT, I DO NOT THINK
24 THAT I WOULD LIKE TO BE IN A POSITION THAT ALL. MY DESIRES
25 TO COOPERATE AND CREATE A NEW PROGRESSIVE CITY SHOULD BE
26 TOTALLY DETERIORATED . SO, IN THAT RESPECT, I WOULD LIKE.
92
1 TO SEE THE COMMISSION EVALUATE THAT. HERE WE HAVE AN
2 OPPORTUNITY TO, IN COMMON LANGUAGE, I ` D LIKE TO HAVE MY
3 CAKE AND EAT IT TOO.
4 SO, I ' D LIKE TO SAY, FIRST OF ALL, I THINK
5 THAT THE ISSUE OF A CITY AND MASTER PLAN OF A CITY SHOULD
6 NOT BE DONE AROUND THE REGIONAL SHOPPING CENTER . I THINK
T THAT THE SHOPPING CONCEPT IS AN ASSET AND SHOULD BE AN
8 AMENITY TO THE GENERAL CONCEPTS OF THE CITY, NOT THE OTHER
9 14AY AROUND. I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR SOME COMMENTS ABOUT THE
10 CONCEPT, BECAUSE ALL WELL-PLANNED CITIES HAVE THAT GOAL
11 IN A DIFFERENT MANNER.
12 AND I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO POINT OUT THAT
13 THE IMAGE OF THIS COMMUNITY IS THE MOST IMPORTANT RESPONSI
14 BILITY OF THIS COMMISSION, NOT WHERE ONE PLACE OR SHOPPING
15 CENTER SHOULD BE . I THINE: THAT' S THE FIRST DETERMINATION
16 OF THIS COMMISSION . I THINK THAT WERE BEGINNING TO
17 DISASSOCIATE OURSELVES FROM WHAT WE REALLY INTEND TO DO
18 AS PLANNERS OF THIS CITY . I THINK I ` D LIKE TO OPEN FOR
19 DISCUSSION AS TO WHAT IS THIS FOCAL POINT THE COMMiUNITY
20 SHOULD HAVE .
21 MR . TOLSTOY : MR. GARCIA, ARE YOU SAYING THAT
22 WE SHOULD NOT MAKE A DECISION AND SPEND MORE TIME 01\1 THIS?
23 IS THAT !'CHAT YOU SAID?
24 MR . REMPEL : BEFORE WE CONTINUE ANY FURTHER,
25 T THINK. WE NEED TO START LIMITING OURSELVES AS TO HOW
26 LONG WE ARE GOING TO CONTINUE TALKING, BECAUSE WE ARE NOT
93
1 GETTING ANYPLACE. WE ' VE GOT TO GET TO THE POINT OF MAKING
2 A DECISION. THE GENERAL PLAN HAS TO BE COMPLETED, AND WE
3 HAVE A TIME LIMIT INVOLVED .
4 MR . DAHL : MR . CHAIRMAN, AT THIS TIME I ' D LIKE
5 TO DO TWO THINGS . ONE, I r LL BE MAKING A MOTION . BUT
6 FIRST I NEED A POINT OF CLARIFICATION FROM STAFF.
7 MR. LAM, I ' D LIKE TO KNOW WHAT WE CONSIDER
8 THE CONCEPT OF A COMMUNITY CENTER. WHAT COMPRISES A
9 COMMUNITY CENTER? WHAT IS AVAILABLE WITHIN A COMMUNITY
10 CENTER IN TERMS OF MAJOR ANCHORS OR WHATEVER?
11 MR . LAM: YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT A COMMUNITY
12 SHOPPING CENTER VERSUS A CIVIC COMMUNITY CENTER?
13 MR. DAHL : RIGHT . I ' M TALKING ABOUT A COMMUNITY
14 SHOPPING CENTER, RIGHT.
15 MR. LAM : A COMMUNITY SHOPPING CENTER IS OF A
16 SMALLER SCALE THAN A REGIONAL SHOPPING CENTER, LESS IN
17 TERMS OF ANCHORAGE . IT COULD BE ANCHORED BY ONE OR MORE
18 MAJOR ANCHORS . IT COULD BE A SEARS SITTING ALONE, OR IT
19 COULD BE A MERVYN ' S, OR IT COULD BE A JUNIOR DEPARTMENT
20 STORE OR SERIES OF JUNIOR DEPARTMENT STORES , JUNIOR
21 MEANING SMALLER IN SCALE, SMALLER IN FLOOR AREA.
22 MR. DAHL : COULD IT BE A SEARS, A MERVYN' S AND
23 SEVERAL DEPARTMENT STORES PLUS A MAJOR DRUG STORE OR
24 ANYTHING LICE THAT?
25 MR . LAM: IT COULD.
26 MR . DAHL : IT COULD?
94
1 MR . HOPSON : IT IS DEFINED IN THE GENERAL PLAN.
2 AND THERE IS, IN THE INTERIM GENERAL PLAN, TEXTURAL
3 MATERIAL REGARDING THAT.
4 MR. DAHL : COULD YOU READ THAT TO ME?
5 MR . HOPSON : WELL, LET ME SUMMARIZE IT. I DON' T
g WANT TO READ IT . IT SAYS THAT IT' S A COMMUNITY SHOPPING
7 CENTER ACHORED BY, THEY USE AS AN EXAMPLE A HUNDRED
8 THOUSAND SQUARE FOOT K MART TYPE DISCOUNT DEPARTMENT
9 STORE . AND THEY DISCUSS THE POSSIBILITY OF, IF ONE OF
10 THE TWO ALTERNATIVE SITES IS ABANDONED AS A REGIONAL
11 CENTER, USING THAT AS A COMMUNITY CENTER . MY IMPRESSION
12 OF TEXTURAL MATERIAL, AND ItLL BRING IT OVER AND LET YOU
13 READ IT, IS THAT IT' S NOT CONCEIVED OF AS BEING A GROUPING
14 OF 100, 000 SQUARE FOOT-PLUS STORES .
15 MR. DAHL : SO WHAT YOU ARE SAYING, THEN, WOULD
16 BE ONE 1.00, 000 SQUARE' FOOT STORE?
17 MR . LAM: MOUNTAIN GREEN IS AN EXAMPLE OF A
18 COMMUNITY SHOPPING CENTER. NOW, A COMMUNITY SHOPPING
19 CENTER DOESN ' T MEAN THAT ONLY TRAFFIC FROM WITHIN THE
20 COMMUNITY GOES THERE . IN ANY KIND OF USE, COMMERCIAL
21 USE, YOU HAVE IN THE CITY, WHETHER IT' S A FREESTANDING
22 K MART OR GEMCO OR COMMUNITY CENTER, THERE ' S ALWAYS
23 BOUND TO BE SOME PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING TO COME FROM OUT--
24 LYING AREAS INTO THE CITY . THE SCALE IS SUCH THAT IT
25 REALLY IS WARRANTED TOWARD THOSE IN THE COMMUNITY .
26 MR. HOGAN : ANOTHER EXAMPLE MOULD BE THE GEMCO
95
1 WHICH WE RECENTLY APPROVED .
2 MR . DAHL : YJHICH IS QUITE A BIT SMALLER THAN
3 THE MOUNTAIN GREEN CENTER, BUT MOUNTAIN GREEN CENTER
4 WOULD BE A GOOD EXAMPLE, THEN, IN TERMS OF ACREAGE .
5 MR . LAM: YES ,
6 MR. DA ;L : WITH THAT, I ' D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION
7 THAT WE RECOMMEND, AS THE PLANNING COMMISSION, TO THE
8 COUNCIL THAT --
9 MR. HOPSON : LET NIE SAY I DON' T THINK YOU ARE
10 RECOMMENDING TO THE COUNCIL . I THINK WHAT YOU ARE DOING
11 IS RECOMMENDING TO THE CONSULTANT, IF I UNDERSTAND .
12 MR. DAHL : AS I UNDERSTAND IT, WE RECOMMEND TO
13 THE COUNCIL, AND THE COUNCIL WILL MAKE THE RECOMMENDATION
14 TO THE CONSULTANT .
15 WE RECOMMEND TO THE COUNCIL THAT THE
16 COUNCIL RECOMMEND TO THE CONSULTANT -- THERE, WE'VE GOT
17 IT -- THAT THE REGIONAL CENTER SHALL BE PLACED AT THE
18 CORNER OF FOOTHILL AND THE DEVORE FREEWAY AND THAT A
19 DESIGNATION OF CIVIC CENTER AND COMMUNITY CENTER WILL
20 BE PLACED AT THE CORNER OF FOOTHILL AND HAVEN AT THE
21 NORTHEAST CORNER .
22 THAT' S THE END OF MY MOTION.
23 MR . REMPEL : IS THERE A SECOND FOR THE MOTION?
24 MR. GARCIA: 1 WOULD LIKE TO SECOND THAT MOTION .
25 I THINK I ' D LIKE TO ADD FOR DISCUSSION, BUT PERHAPS IF
26 1 CAN AMMEND THAT .
9a
1 MR . DAHL : SURE.
2 MR . GARCIA: I ' D I-IKE TO SEE AN ELABORATION OF
3 THE COMMUNITY . I THINK I ' D LIKE TO SEE , IT' S SUCH AN
4 IMPORTANT AREA, I ' D LIKE IT TO BE BEYOND THAT . I ' D LIKE
5 TO DETERMINE IT NOW AS A (MAJOR COMMUNITY SHOPPING CENTER
6 THAT WOULD BE SEPARATED FROM THE SHOPPING CENTER THAT WE
7 HAVE ON ARCHIBALD .
8 MR. DAHL : I HAVE NO OBJECTIONS TO DESIGNATING
9 IT AS A MAJOR COMMUNI TY - SHOPPING CENTER.
10 MS . JONES : MAY I ASK, MR. GARCIA, DID YOU MEAN
11 AT THE PRIME "A" SITES RATHER THAN HAVEN AND FOOTHILL, THE
12 OTHER SITE ON MILLIKEN?
13 MR . GARCIA: NO . I ' M TALKING ABOUT THE ---- I
14 WAS JUST AMENDING COMMISSIONER DAHL' S MOTION THAT I ' D LIKE
15 TO SEE THAT AT LEAST A MAJOR COMMUNITY CENTER THAT WILL
16 BE IDENTIFIABLE ENOUGH IN OUR CITY AS WELL AS OUR SURROUND
17 lNG COMMUNITIES FROM OUR TYPICAL COMMUNITY CENTERS LIKE
18 WE HAVE OId THE CORNERS OF OUR COMMUNITY . I MOULD LIICE TO
19 SEE THAT THEY HAVE SOME SORT OF IMAGE AND AN OPPORTUNITY
20 TO IMPLEMENT SOME ADDITIONAL AMENITIES THAT WILL GIVE US
21 A GOOD FOCAL POINT .
22 iAR . DAHL : WITH MORE THAN ONE ANCHOR, YES .
23 MR. LAM: I THINK WHAT YOU ARE DOING IS GIVING
24 DIRECTION TO THE CONSULTANT THAT THE MAJOR REGIONAL
25 SHOULD BE CONSIDERED ON FOOTHILL AND DEVORE AND THAT
26 EXPLORATION OF THE POTENTIAL FOR A CIVIC AND COMMUNITY
a7J
1 SCALE --
2 MR . DAHL : MAJOR COMMUNITY SCALE .
3 MR . LAM: MAJOR .
4 MR . GARCIA: IS THAT CORRECT?
5 MR. DAHL : WHICH MEANS MORE THAN ONE, PERHAPS
6 MAYBE MORE THAN ONE MAJOR ANCHOR IS WHAT HE IS SAYING.
7 MR . LAM: OKAY, WELL, ON A GENERAL PLAN, THE
S GENERAL PLAN DOES NOT SPECIFY HOW MANY ANCHORS . IT JUST
9 DESIGNATES A CONCEPT .
10 MR. DAHL : THAT' S WHY WE USED THE TERM "MAJOR .'
11 MR, LAM : WHAT THE CONSULTANT WILL DO IS
12 DEVELOP LAND USE RELATIONSHIPS THAT WOULD TEND TO SUPPORT
13 THIS CONCEPT AND SHOW HOW THIS CAN BE TIED TOGETHER INTO
14 ONE UNIFIED PLAN FOR THE COMMUNITY, AND THAT IN TURN
15 WOULD BE DEVELOPED THROUGH THE C .A. C . , PACKAGED TOGETHER
16 IN A DRAFT PLAN AND ENVIORNMENTAL IMPACT REPORT PREPARED
17 FOR IT TO BE SUBMITTED TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND
1s CITY COUNCIL FOR PUBLIC HEARING .
19 MR . GARCIA: YES . I WOULD LIKE TO SE` THAT,
20 AND I THINK AT THAT TIME, WHEN THERE IS MORE INFORMATION
21 DEVELOPED IN THIS PARTICULAR PLAN, THEN A DECISION WILL
22 TAKE PLACE REGARDING HOW MANY, HOW AND SO ON AND SO FORTH .
23 MR. RE)NIPEL : I THINK I ' D LIKE TO MAKE ONE
24 COMMENT ON THAT . I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO SEE INCLUDED,
25 NOT NECESSARILY INCLUDED IN THE MOTION, BUT I WOULD LIKE
26 TO SEE DIRECTION GIVEN TO CONSULTANTS FROM THE COMMISSION
98
1 THAT THE CONSULTANT DEFINITELY MAKES SOME TYPE OF A TIE .
2 I THINK THAT THE TERRA VISTA AND VICTORIA PLANS HAVE THIS
3 GREENBELT PARK CONCEPT RUNNING THROUGH THEM. I THINK
4 THAT THE TIE THERE SHOULD BE EMPHASIZED, THAT THIS TIE
5 BE REALLY EMPHASIZED IN THIS AREA ALONG WITH SOME TYPE OF
6 TRANSIT CORRIDOR LOOP INCORPORATED INTO THE WHOLE SYSTEM}
7 SO THAT WHEN PEOPLE WANT TO GO FROM ONE TO THE OTHER, OR
8 THIS SORT OF THING, THAT THERE IS A TIE ON THIS THING
9 WITH SOME TYPE OF A TRANSIT SYSTEM . AND I THINK THAT,
10 FOR THE REST OF THE PUBLIC, I THINK IT' S WELL THAT WE
11 EMPHASIZE THE FACT THAT THE COMMISSION AND THE C .A . C .
12 HAS CONTINUALLY TALKED THAT THERE BE A GOOD TRANSIT
13 SYSTEM WITHIN THE CITY, A LOOP SYSTEM OF SOME TYPE WITHIN
14 THE CITY SO THAT THE RESIDENTS OF RANCHO CUCAMONGA WON' T
15 HAVE TO GET INTO THEIR CAR, WHETHER IT BE THE REGIONAL
16 AT HAVEN AND • FOOTHILL OR AT FOOTHILL AND THE FREEWAY .
17 WE HAVE CONSTANTLY SAID THAT WE WANT A TRANSIT SYSTEM,
18 ,AND I THINK THAT THIS NEEDS TO BE EMPHASIZED AGAIN IN
19 THIS .
20 MR . TOLSTOY : I ' M SORRY . I CAN' T GO ALONG
21 WITH THAT. EVERYTHING YOU SAID IS FINE, BUT YOU ARE
22 CLOUDING THE ISSUE .
23 MR. REMPEL : I JUST THINK --
24 MR . TOLSTOY : YOU ARE TRYING TO DO TOO MUCH AT
25 THIS POINT .
26 MR. REMPEL: NO, I DON ' T THINK SO. I THINK
99
1 THE CONNECTION ACROSS OUR CITY, THAT GREENBELT, NEEDS TO
2 BE CONTINUED .
3 MR. TOLSTOY : WELL, I AGREE WITH THAT, BUT THE
4 ISSUE IN FRONT OF THE COMMISSION AT THIS POINT IS MR.
5 DAHL ' S MOTION WITH THE ADDITION BY MR . GARCIA.
6 AND YOU DID SECOND THAT, RIGHT, MR.
7 GARCIA?
8 MR. GARCIA: THATSS CORRECT.
9 MR, TOLSTOY : I ' D LIKE TO SAY I ' M GOING TO HAVE
10 A HARD TIME WITH THAT MOTION . I THINK MR, LEWIS HAS THE
11 MOST IMPORTANT PIECE OF PROPERTY IN THIS CITY. THE
12 CORNER OF FOOTHILL AND HAVEN SHOULD BE THE FOCAL POINT
13 FOR THE COMMUNITY, AND I DON' T KNOW IF THE STAFF IS
14 COMFORTABLE WITH THIS . I ' D BE COMFORTABLE BY MAKING A
15 MOTION TO PUT THE REGIONAL CENTER WHERE MR . DAHL' S MOTION
16 PUT IT, BUT I DON' T LIKE TO CLOUD THE ISSUE WITH THE
17 SECONDARY THING.
18 I ' D LIKE TO SEE TWO MOTIONS, FRANKLY .
19 I ' D LIKE TO SEE THE FIRST MOTION PUTTING THE REGIONAL
20 CENTER WHERE IT' S GOING TO BE; THEN ANOTHER MOTION THAT
21 WOULD SAY THAT THE COMMISSION FEELS THAT THE CORNER OF
22 FOOTHILL AND HAVEN IS A MOST IMPORTANT ASSET . IT SHOULD
23 BE THE FOCAL POINT IN THIS CITY . IT SHOULD BE -- I DOW T
24 KNOW WHAT TO CALL IT -- MAJOR, SUPER , IT' S A CITY
25 CENTER THAT CAN CONTAIN A NUMBER OF ACTIVITIES . THEY
26 CAN BE CULTURAL . THEY COULD BE SHOPPING . IT COULD BE A
100
1 VERY UNIQUE TYPE OF SHOPPING AREA. I DON' T CARE HOW MANY
2 ACRES IT HAS . IT COULD HAVE JUST ALL KINDS OF NEW,
3 INNOVATIVE CONCEPTS OF A NEW TYPE OF SHOPPING CENTER WHICH
4 COULD BE SUPER, AND THAT WE SHOULD ALSO THINK VERY KEENLY
5 OF HAVING OUR CIVIC BUILDINGS THERE . I MEAN LIBRARIES,
6 CITY HALL, WHATEVER .
7 BUT I KIND OF WOULD FEEL MORE COMFORTABLE
8 HAVING TWO DISTINCT MOTIONS : ONE DIRECTING OR SUGGESTING
9 THE CONSULTANTS TO RECEIVE, WITH THE CITY COUNCILS CON--
10 CURRENCE, TO PLACE THAT SHOPPING CENTER, THE REGIONAL
11 CENTER, AT THE CORNER OF FOOTHILL AND THE FREEWAY, AND
12 THEN THE SECOND MOTION TO REALLY PUNCH IT OUT THAT MR .
13 LEWIS ' S PROPERTY -- AND THAT CORNER IS VERY IMPORTANT AND
14 SHOULD BE LOOKED AT IN A NEW LIGHT, NOW, BUT TO BE LOOKED
15 AT IN A VERY IMPORTANT LIGHT. 12M JUST GOING TO HAVE A
16 TOUGH TIME WITH THAT MOTION THAT WAS MADE AND SECONDED .
17 MR . DAHL : MY QUESTION TO THIS IS HOW DO YOU
18 SHOW THAT AS A DESIGNATION UPON YOUR REGIONAL PLAN? I
19 MEAN THE DESIGNATION HAS EITHER GOT TO BE THAT IT ' S A
20 DESIGNATED AREA FOR CIVIC CENTER OR MAJOR COMMUNITY
21 CENTER OR I DON' T KNOW EXACTLY HOW YOU WOULD DESIGNATE
22 THAT TO GET 1,-dHAT YOU WANT TO SHOW ON THE GENERAL PLAN.
23 MR . LAM: WHAT WE ARE DOING IS NOT DETERMINING
24 A SPECIFIC DESIGNATION, BECAUSE THAT' S GOING TO HAVE TO
25 BE DEVELOPED THROUGH THE CONSULTANT PROCESS . YOU COULD
26 DO EITHER, TAKE THE APPROACH THAT MR . DAHL HAS TAKEN AND
101
1 SAY, WELL, WE WANT THAT DESIGNATION THERE . THAT' S GOT
2 TO BE IT . OR YOU CAN SAY WE WOULD LIKE TO DEVELOP THAT
3 INTERSECTION OR RECOGNIZE THE INTERSECTION AS VERY
4 IMPORTANT TO THE COMMUNITY AND IT SHOULD BE DEVELOPED AS
S A FOCAL POINT WHAT CAN COMBINE CIVIC, CULTURAL, AND
6 SPECIFIC SHOPPING FACILITIES .
7 MR. TOLSTOY : UNIQUE SHOPPING .
8 MR. LAM: IT WOULD THEN BE THE JOB OF THE
G CONSULTANT TO DEVELOP THAT FURTHER, THOSE IDEAS FURTHER,
10 AND USE THEIR CREATIVE TALENTS TO SHOW HOW THAT CAN BE
11 ACHIEVED .
12 MR. DAHL : THAT KIND OF GIVES SO MANY THINGS --
13 MR . GARCIA: MR. LAM, I THINK I WOULD LIKE
14 TO -- I CONCUR WITH COMMISSIONER DAHL ' S CONCERN ABOUT
15 BEING MORE SPECIFIC. I THINK WHEN WE GET INTO DETAILS,
16 I ' D LIKE TO SEE BANKING, FOR EXAMPLE, HEALTH CARE PROVIDE
17 WITHIN THE WHOLE COMPLEX, A LOT OF THINGS THAT I WOULD
18 LIKE TO SUGGEST . IT CAN BE A UNIQUE FOCAL POINT FOR
19 OUR COMMUNITY, BUT I THINK I ' D LIKE, PERHAPS, TO HAVE
20 SOME DISCUSSION ABOUT THAT.
21 MR . DAHL : I CALL FOR THE QUESTION.
22 MR . REMPEL : ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY
23 SAYING AYE .
24 AYE .
25 MS . JONES : AYE .
26 MR. GARCIA: AYE .
102
1 MR . DAHL: AYE .
2 MR. REMPEL : OPPOSED?
3 MR . TOLSTOY : I ` M GOING TO ABSTAIN .
4 MR. REMPEL: THE MOTION IS CARRIED AS PROPOSED .
5 I ' D LIKE TO MAKE ONE COMMENT ON IT,
6 THOUGH, THAT I THINK TO SPECIFY ANYTHING ELSE AS FAR
7 AS TRYING TO DECIDE WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN AT THAT
8 INTERSECTION AT THIS TIME WITHOUT REALLY DOING SOME MORE
9 STUDY ON THAT, I THINK WOULD BE PREMATURE . AND I THINK
10 THAT THIS IS GOING TO HAVE TO TAKE SOME MORE DISCUSSION
11 WITH THE CONSULTANT .
12 I THINK AT THIS TIME WE NEED TO TAKE
13 ANOTHER SHORT BREAK .
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1 STATE OF CALIFORNIA )
SS .
2 COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES )
3
4
5
6
7
8 I , SUSAN WILSON_ , A
9 CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTER AND NOTARY PUBLIC IN AND FOR
10 THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA, DO HEREBY CERTIFY :
11 THAT THE FOREGOING PROCEEDINGS WERE TAKEN
12 D014N BY ME IN STENOTYPE AT THE TIME AND PLACE HEREIN
13 STATED AND THEREAFTER REDUCED TO TYPEWRITING UNDER MY
14 DIRECTION.
15
16 DATED THIS DAY OF __APRIL�
17 1980 .
18
19
20
21 NOTARY PU&LIC IN AND FOR THE
STATE OF CALIFORNIA
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24 Fs .t r �� r va v r=n air t ,
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