HomeMy WebLinkAbout1989/08/16 - MinutesAugust 16, 1989
CITY OF RANCHO CUCAMONGA
CITY COUNCIL MINUTES
Regular Meeting
A. CALL TO ORDER
A regular meeting of the City Council met on Wednesday, August 16, 1989, at the
Lions Park Community Center, 9161 Base Line Road, Rancho Cucamonga, California.
The meeting was called to order at 7:43 p.m. by Mayor Dennis L. Stout.
Present were Councilmembers: William J. Alexander, Deborah N. Brown, Pamela J.
Wright (left the City Council meeting at 1:30 a.m.), and Mayor Dennis L. Stout.
Also present were: Jack Lam, City Manager, Linda D. Daniels, Deputy City
Manager; Jerry Fulwood, Deputy City Manager; James Markman, City Attorney; Diane
O'Neal, Administrative Analyst; Patty Rif fel, Executive Assistant; Susan Mickey,
Administrative Aide; Rick Gomez, Community Development Director; Brad Buller,
City Planner; Bret Horner, Associate Planner; Steve Ross, Assistant Planner;
Russell Maguire, City Engineer; Paul Rougeau, Traffic Engineer; Walt Stickney,
Associate Engineer; Mike Olivier, Senior Civil Engineer; John Martin, Associate
Civil Engineer; Jerry Grant, Building Official; Jim Hart, Administrative Services
Director, and Debra J. Adams, City Clerk.
Absent was Councilmember: Charles J. Buquet II.
Jack Lam, City Manager, stated it is requested that Items B1, F3, F4, FS and F6
be continued to the September 6, 1989 meeting. He further announced Item G2 will
be re -noticed in The Daily Report for legal reasons, and that the item will be
back at the September 20, 1989 meeting.
B ANNOUNCEMENTS/PRESENTATIONS
Bl. Presentation of 10 -year pin to Dan Coleman, Principal Planner. ITEM
CONTINUED TO THE SEPTEMBER 6, 1989 MEETING
City Council Minutes
August 16, 1989
Page 2
C. COMMUNICATIONS FROM THE PUBLIC -
Cl. David Rogoff, 8229 Placida Court, stated the City had made some
improvements on his street, and that he was originally told his street
could have sidewalks. He stated he is now being told that because of the
width of the street they cannot get sidewalks.
Mayor Stout asked that this item come back at the September 6, 1989 City Council
meeting for further discussion.
C2. Tom Albrecht, 6434 Tackstem Place, asked when 19th and Haven was going to
be finished and when Highland will be reopened. He also asked about
Milliken being extended.
Mayor Stout stated that all of his concerns would be discussed later in the
meeting.
Tom Albrecht stated he also had some concerns regarding his property
assessments. He was referred to Jerry Fulwood, Deputy City Manager to
discuss this with him.
F.
D. CONSENT CALENDAR
D1. Approval of Minutes: July 19, 1989.
D2. Approval of Warrants, Register Nos. 8/2/89 and 8/9/89 and Payroll ending
8/3/89 for the total amount of $3,698,098.52.
D3. Approval to authorize the advertising of the "Notice Inviting Bids" for the
Milliken Avenue Median from 4th to 6th Streets and East Side Entry Monument
Improvement Project, to be funded from Beautification Funds, Account Nos. 21-
4647-8814 and 21-4647-8719 (FY 89/90). ITEM REMOVED FOR DISCUSSION BY
_,OUNCILMEMBER WRIGHT {0601-01 BID}
RESOLUTION NO. 89-360
A RESOLUTION OF THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF RANCHO
CUCAMONGA, CALIFORNIA, APPROVING PLANS AND
SPECIFICATIONS FOR THE "MILLIKEN AVENUE MEDIAN
IMPROVEMENT FROM 4TH TO 6TH STREETS AND EAST SIDE ENTRY
MONUMENT", IN SAID CITY AND AUTHORIZING AND DIRECTING
THE CITY CLERK TO ADVERTISE TO RECEIVE BIDS
D4. Approval to authorize the advertising of the "Notice Inviting Bids" for the
Etiwanda Avenue Cobblestone Curb and Gutter Improvement Project located on the
west side of Etiwanda Avenue, north of Victoria Street, to be funded from
Beautification Funds, Account No. 21-4647-8822 (FY 88/89). (0601-01 BID)
City Council Minutes
August 16, 1989
Page 3
RESOLUTION NO. 89-361 -
A RESOLUTION OF THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF RANCHO
CUCAMONGA, CALIFORNIA, APPROVING PLANS AND SPECIFICATIONS FOR
THE ETIWANDA AVENUE COBBLESTONE CURB AND GUTTER" LOCATED ON
THE WEST SIDE OF ETIWANDA AVENUE, NORTH OF VICTORIA STREET, IN
SAID CITY AND AUTHORIZING AND DIRECTING THE CITY CLERK TO
ADVERTISE TO RECEIVE BIDS
D5. Approval to authorize the advertising of the "Notice Inviting Bids" for the (3�
Haven Avenue Median, Phase IV -A Improvement Project, located from Haven Village
Drive to Highland Avenue to be funded from Beautification Funds, Account No. 21-
4647-8795 (FY 89/90). (0601-01 BID)
RESOLUTION NO. 89-362
A RESOLUTION OF THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF RANCHO
CUCAMONGA, CALIFORNIA, APPROVING PLANS AND SPECIFICATIONS FOR
THE "HAVEN AVENUE MEDIANS, PHASE IV -A IN SAID CITY AND
AUTHORIZING AND DIRECTING THE CITY CLERK TO ADVERTISE TO
RECEIVE BIDS
D6. Approval to assign two crossing guards to Amethyst Avenue in the vicinity
(4)
of Alta Loma Elementary School, based on the recommendation of the Public Safety
Commission. (1301-05 CROS GUARD)
D7. Approval to purchase riding lawn mower and required trailer from C.R.
(5)
Jaeschke, Incorporated of San Diego, California, for the amount of $25,107.38 to
be funded from Account Number 72-4225-7045 (FY 89/90). ITEM REMOVED FOR
DISCUSSION BY COUNCILMEMBER BROWN (0600-00 PURCHASE)
D8. Approval to execute Renewal Agreement (CO 89-136) for the Landscape
(6)
Maintenance Contract for Haven Median Islands and San Bernardino County Flood
Control Wash Ends to Mariposa Landscapes, Incorporated of South E1 Monte,
California, for the amount of $133,510.00 to be funded by General Fund, County
Flood Control Agreement, Landscape Maintenance Assessment Districts 3B and 4;
Account Numbers 01-4647-6028, 08-4647-6028, 46-4130-6028 and 43-4130-6028,
respectively (FY 89/90). (0602-01 CONTRACT)
D9. Approval to execute Renewal Agreement (CO 89-137) for the Landscape
(7)
Maintenance Contract for Landscape Maintenance Districts 2 and 4 to Landscape
be funded by
West of Los Angeles, California, for the amount of $251,916.00, to
41-4130-6028 and
Landscape Maintenance Assessment District 2 and 4; Account No.s
43-4130-6028, respectively (FY 89/90). ((0602-01 CONTRACT)
D10. Approval to execute Renewal Agreement (CO 89-138) for the Landscape
(8)
Maintenance Contract for General Fund Parkways and Landscape Maintenance
Assessment Districts 1, 3A, and 5 to Landscape West of Los Angeles, California,
Fund and Landscape
for the amount of $234,779.00 to be funded by General
1, 3A, and 5; Account Nos. 01-4647-6028, 40-
Maintenance Assessment Districts
44-4130-6028 (FY 89/90). (0602-01 CONTRACT)
4130-6028, 42-4130-6028 and
City Council Minutes
August 16, 1989
Page 4
(9) D11. Approval to execute contract (CO 89-139) for services with Inland Mediation
Board for Senior Shared Housing Services in the amount of $6,300.00 to be
reimbursed by Community Development Block Grant Funds. ((0602-01 CONTRACT)
(10) D12. Approval to execute contract (CO 89-140) for services with Inland Mediation
Board for a Fair Housing Program and Housing Information and Counseling Services
in the amount of $8,975.00 to be reimbursed by Community Development Block Grant
Funds. (0602-01 CONTRACT)
(11) D13. Approval to execute an amendment to a Professional Services Agreement (CO
89-141) with Michael Brandman Associates, Incorporated for additional services
for the preparation of an Environmental Impact Report for the Etiwanda North
Specific Plan not to exceed $14,036.00, with said amount to be reimbursed by the
Applicant. (0602-01 CONT AMEN)
(12) D14. Approval to award and execute agreement (CO 89-142) for the Beryl and Lions
Park Tennis Courts Improvement Project to Hubbs Equipment and Construction, San
Bernardino, California, for the amount of $870,019.00 plus 10% contingency to be
funded from Park Development Funds 20-4532-8006 and 8007, 1984 State Bond Act
Funds 29-4532-8619 and 8920, and 1985-86 Roberti-Zeberg 20-4532-8619. (0511-01
AWARD) (0602-01 CONTRACT)
(13) D15. Approval to execute Agreement for Installation of Public Improvement and
Dedication (CO 89-143) between Robert W. Smith and Cheryl L. Smith and the City
of Rancho Cucamonga for Drainage Improvements located along the northwest corner
of the Smith parcel for the Hidden Farm Culvert project. (0602-01 AGREE IMPR)
RESOLUTION NO. 89-363
A RESOLUTION OF THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF RANCHO
CUCAMONGA, CALIFORNIA, ACCEPTING AN AGREEMENT FOR
INSTALLATION OF PUBLIC IMPROVEMENT AND DEDICATION FROM
ROBERT W. SMITH AND CHERYL L. SMITH, AND AUTHORIZING THE
MAYOR AND CITY CLERK TO SIGN SAME
(14) D16. Approval to execute Agreement for Installation of Public Improvement and
Dedication (CO 89-144) between Walter Q. White and Gayle M. White and the City
of Rancho Cucamonga for Drainage Improvements located along the southeast portion
of the White parcel for the Hidden Farm Culvert Project. (0602-01 AGREE IMPR)
RESOLUTION NO. 89-364
A RESOLUTION OF THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF RANCHO
CUCAMONGA, CALIFORNIA, ACCEPTING AN AGREEMENT FOR
INSTALLATION OF PUBLIC IMPROVEMENT AND DEDICATION FROM
WALTER Q. WHITE AND GAYLE M. WHITE, AND AUTHORIZING THE
MAYOR AND CITY CLERK TO SIGN SAME
(15) D17. Approval to execute Agreement for Installation of Public Improvement and
Dedication (CO 89-145) between Henry Martinez and Joan E. Martinez and the City
of Rancho Cucamonga for Drainage Improvements located along the northeast portion
of the Martinez parcel for the Hidden Farm Culvert project. (0602-01 AGREE IMPR)
City Council Minutes
August 16, 1989
Page 5
RESOLUTION NO. 89-365
A RESOLUTION OF THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF RANCHO
CUCAMONGA, CALIFORNIA, ACCEPTING AN AGREEMENT FOR
INSTALLATION OF PUBLIC IMPROVEMENT AND DEDICATION FROM
HENRY MARTINEZ AND JOAN E. MARTINEZ, AND AUTHORIZING THE
MAYOR AND CITY CLERK TO SIGN SAME
D18. Approval of a Lease Agreement (CO 89-146) with Metropolitan Water District (16)
for use of six acres of District property for Beryl Park for $1,200.00 per year.
(0602-01 AGREE LEAS)
D19. Approval to execute Contract Change Order No. 1 (CO 89-147) for the (17)
Hillside Avenue Storm Drain and Street Improvements from Archibald Avenue to the
Upper Alta Loma Channel, by Associated Engineers, Incorporated, for the
additional study and design of local drainage facilities, as required by San
Bernardino County Flood Control, in the amount of $3,500.00 to bring the new
contract total amount to $14,700.00 to be funded by City-wide Storm Drain Fees
Account No. 23-4637-8862 (FY 88/89). (0602-01 CONT AMEN)
D20. Approval of Parcel Map, execution of Improvement Agreement, Improvement
Security, Real Property Improvement Contract and Lien Agreement (CO 89-148), and
Ordering the Annexation to Landscape Maintenance District No. 1 and Street
Lighting Maintenance District Nos. 1 and 2 for Parcel Map 5996, located south of
Wilson Avenue, east of Mayberry Avenue, submitted by Randolph S. Davis and Sandra
P. Davis. (1002-09 MSPZ) (0602-01 AGREE IMPR) (0602-01 AGREE LIEN) (0401-03 ST
LT MD) (0401-03 LNSCAPE MD)
RESOLUTION NO. 89-366 (18)
A RESOLUTION OF THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF RANCHO
CUCAMONGA, CALIFORNIA, APPROVING PARCEL MAP NUMBER 5996,
(TENTATIVE PARCEL MAP NO. 5996), IMPROVEMENT AGREEMENT,
IMPROVEMENT SECURITY AND REAL PROPERTY IMPROVEMENT
CONTRACT AND LIEN AGREEMENT
RESOLUTION NO. 89-367 (19)
A RESOLUTION OF THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF RANCHO
CUCAMONGA, CALIFORNIA, ORDERING THE ANNEXATION OF
CERTAIN TERRITORY TO LANDSCAPE MAINTENANCE DISTRICT NO.
1 AND STREET LIGHTING MAINTENANCE DISTRICT NOS. 1 AND 2
FOR PARCEL MAP 5996
D21. Approval to execute Improvement Agreement Extension for CUP 84-34 located (20)
on the northeast corner of Base Line Road and Carnelian Avenue submitted by MBWJ
Properties. (0602-01 AGREE EXTN)
City Council Minutes
August 16, 1989
Page 6
RESOLUTION NO. 89-368
A RESOLUTION OF THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF RANCHO
CUCAMONGA, CALIFORNIA, APPROVING IMPROVEMENT AGREEMENT
EXTENSION AND IMPROVEMENT SECURITY FOR CUP 84-34Da)
Approval to execute Improvement Agreement Extension for
Tract 13442 Kenyon Park, located on the northwest corner
of Kenyon Way and Lark Drive, submitted by William Lyon
Company. (0602-01 AGREE EXTN)
(21) D22. Approval to execute Improvement Agreement Extension for Tract 13442 Kenyon
Park, located on the northwest corner of Kenyon Way and Lark Drive, submitted by
William Lyon Company.
RESOLUTION NO. 89-369
A RESOLUTION OF THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF RANCHO
CUCAMONGA, CALIFORNIA, APPROVING IMPROVEMENT AGREEMENT
EXTENSION AND IMPROVEMENT SECURITY FOR TRACT 13442
KENYON PARK
(22) D23. Approval of reduction of Faithful Performance Bond for Tract 12671-1
through -4 located on the northwest corner of Milliken Avenue and Mountain View
Drive, submitted by Lewis Homes of California. (0602-01 BOND ACCEPT)
Release: Faithful Performance Bond (Street) $1,034,000.00
Accept: Faithful Performance Bond (Street) $ 103,400.00
D24. Approval to accept Improvements, Release of Bonds and Notice of Completion
for: (0602-01 BOND REL) (0704-18 NOT COMPLT)
(23) Tract 10414 located on Riverside Avenue between Hillside Road and Vista
Street
Release: Faithful Performance Bond (Street) $ 322,250.00
Accept: Maintenance Guarantee Certificate
of Deposit (Street) $ 32,250.00
RESOLUTION NO. 89-370
A RESOLUTION OF THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF RANCHO
CUCAMONGA, CALIFORNIA, ACCEPTING THE PUBLIC IMPROVEMENTS
FOR TRACT 10414 AND AUTHORIZING THE FILING OF A NOTICE
OF COMPLETION FOR THE WORK
(24) DR 87-16 located on the west side of Etiwanda Avenue between Foothill
Boulevard and Arrow Route
Release: Faithful Performance Bond (Street) $ 10,000.00
r
City Council Minutes
August 16, 1989
Page 7
RESOLUTION NO. 89-371
A RESOLUTION OF THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF RANCHO
CUCAMONGA, CALIFORNIA, ACCEPTING THE PUBLIC IMPROVEMENTS
FOR DR 87-16 AND AUTHORIZING THE FILING OF A NOTICE OF
COMPLETION FOR THE WORK
DR 88-18 located on the west side of Santa Anita Avenue 2,000 feet north (25)
of 4th Street
Release: Faithful Performance Bond (Street) $ 14,000.00
RESOLUTION NO. 89-372
A RESOLUTION OF THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF RANCHO
CUCAMONGA, CALIFORNIA, ACCEPTING THE PUBLIC IMPROVEMENTS
FOR DR 88-18 AND AUTHORIZING THE FILING OF A NOTICE OF
COMPLETION FOR THE WORK
DR 87-09 located on the south side of Arrow Route 2500 feet west of (26)
Rochester Avenue
Release: Faithful Performance Bond (Street) $ 408,000.00
RESOLUTION NO. 89-373
A RESOLUTION OF THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF RANCHO
CUCAMONGA, CALIFORNIA, ACCEPTING THE PUBLIC IMPROVEMENTS
FOR DR 87-09 AND AUTHORIZING THE FILING OF A NOTICE OF
COMPLETION FOR THE WORK
D25. Approval to accept Improvements, release of Maintenance Guarantee Bond for:
(0602-01 BOND REL)
Road
Tract 11577 located on the west side of Hermosa Avenue south of Base Line (27)
Maintenance Guarantee Bond (Street) $ 4,900.00
Tract 12670-1 through -4 located on the south side of Base Line Road (28)
between Spruce Avenue and Milliken Avenue
Maintenance Guarantee Bond (Street) $ 82,995.00
Tract 13062 located on the north side of 19th Street between Amethyst (29)
Avenue and Archibald Avenue
Maintenance Guarantee Bond (Street) $ 26,100.00
MOTION: Moved by Wright, seconded by Brown to approve the Consent Calendar with
the exception of items D3 and D7. Motion carried unanimously 4-0-1 (Buquet
absent).
City Council Minutes
August 16, 1989
Page 8
DISCUSSION OF ITEM D3. Approval to authorize the advertising of the "Notice
Inviting Bids" for the Milliken Avenue Median from 4th to 6th Streets and East
Side Entry Monument Improvement Project, to be funded from Beautification Funds,
Account Nos. 21-4647-8814 and 21-4647-8719 (FY 89/90).
Councilmember Wright asked if any funds, other than Beautification Funds, would
be used.
Paul Rougeau, Traffic Engineer, stated no.
RESOLUTION NO. 89-360
A RESOLUTION OF THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF RANCHO
CUCAMONGA, CALIFORNIA, APPROVING PLANS AND
SPECIFICATIONS FOR THE "MILLIKEN AVENUE MEDIAN
IMPROVEMENT FROM 4TH TO 6TH STREETS AND EAST SIDE ENTRY
MONUMENT", IN SAID CITY AND AUTHORIZING AND DIRECTING
THE CITY CLERK TO ADVERTISE TO RECEIVE BIDS
MOTION: Moved by Wright, seconded by Stout to approve Resolution No. 89-360.
Motion carried unanimously 4-0-1 (Buquet absent).
DISCUSSION OF ITEM D7. Approval to purchase riding lawn mower and required
trailer from C.R. Jaeschke, Incorporated of San Diego, California, for the amount
of $25,107.38 to be funded from Account Number 72-4225-7045 (FY 89/90).
Councilmember Brown questioned if the City should purchase a machine that is
going to be outlawed because of it having a gasoline engine.
Paul Rougeau, Traffic Engineer, stated he would hope that the Air Quality
Management District would have alternate methods if they were to outlaw this.
Mayor Stout asked if this could be held for two weeks to allow time for an
investigation into this.
Russell Maguire, City Engineer, stated this engine could be converted to an
alternate fuel source if needed.
Councilmember Brown asked if there were lawn mowers available that do not use
gasoline, and has the City checked on this.
Russell Maguire, City Engineer, stated they have checked into it, and that
eventually they would have the capability to convert the City's machines as they
come on line.
MOTION: Moved by Brown, seconded by Alexander to approve the purchase of the
riding lawn mower and required trailer. Motion carried unanimously 4-0-1 (Buquet
absent).
City Council Minutes
August 16, 1989
Page 9
E. CONSENT ORDINANCES -
E1. ENVIRONMENTAL ASSESSMENT AND DEVELOPMENT CODE AMENDMENT 89-01 - CITY OF (30)
RANCHO CUCAMONGA - Establishment of criteria for car washes within Neighborhood
Commercial Districts. (0203-03 DC AMEND)
Debra J. Adams, City Clerk, read the title of Ordinance No. 398.
Mayor Stout asked if the City has received any additional information regarding
Ordinance No. 398.
Brad Buller, City Planner, stated no.
ORDINANCE NO. 398 (second reading)
AN ORDINANCE OF THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF RANCHO
CUCAMONGA, CALIFORNIA, AMENDING TITLE 17 OF THE RANCHO
CUCAMONGA MUNICIPAL CODE REGARDING CAR WASHES WITHIN
NEIGHBORHOOD COMMERCIAL DISTRICTS
MOTION: Moved by Brown, seconded by Wright to waive full reading and approve
Ordinance No. 398. Motion carried unanimously 4-0-1 (Buquet absent).
E2. AMENDMENT TO THE CONDOMINIUM CONVERSION ORDINANCE - An amendment to Chapter (31)
17.22 of the Municipal Code, modifying parking requirements for condominium
conversions to be consistent with Development Code parking requirements. (1163-01
PK & TRF)
Debra J. Adams, City Clerk, read the title of Ordinance No. 399.
ORDINANCE NO. 399 (second reading)
AN ORDINANCE OF THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF RANCHO
CUCAMONGA, CALIFORNIA, AMENDING CHAPTER 17.22 OF THE
MUNICIPAL CODE, MODIFYING PARKING REQUIREMENTS FOR
CONDOMINIUM CONVERSIONS TO BE CONSISTENT WITH
DEVELOPMENT CODE REQUIREMENTS
MOTION: Moved by Brown, seconded by Wright to waive full reading and approve
Ordinance No. 399. Motion carried unanimously 4-0-1 (Buquet absent).
F. ADVERTISED PUBLIC HEARINGS
F1. ENVIRONMENTAL ASSESSMENT AND GENERAL PLAN AMENDMENT 89-03 - CITY OF RANCHO (32)
CUCAMONGA - An amendment to the circulation element of the Rancho Cucamonga
General Plan to restore through traffic to Highland Avenue between Haven Avenue
City Council Minutes
August 16, 1989
Page 10
and Deer Creek Channel, with a connection to Highland Avenue from --19th Street
near San Benito Avenue. Staff report presented by Paul Rougeau, Traffic
Engineer. (0203-03 GP AMEN)
Mayor Stout asked if this has been processed through Caltrans.
Paul Rougeau, Traffic Engineer, stated they have obtained permits from Caltrans.
Jack Lam, City Manager, stated there is new leadership at Caltrans and the City
has been meeting with them. He further stated that Caltrans has been doing some
revamping of their personnel and felt there should be more cooperation from them.
Mayor Stout asked when the Milliken work would be done.
Paul Rougeau, Traffic Engineer, stated work is to begin next week and that
permits have been obtained from Caltrans. He stated the completion of the work
should be in about six to eight weeks which would open the lane down to Base Line
Road.
Mayor Stout asked when it would be completed down to Foothill Boulevard.
Paul Rougeau, Traffic Engineer, stated he does not have a good time frame for
that, but felt it should be in less than six months.
Mayor Stout asked about the completion of the intersection of 19th and Haven.
Paul Rougeau, Traffic Engineer, stated that the completion of the job should be
done by the end of September including the traffic signal.
Councilmember Brown asked what the due date was for the Highland extension.
Russell Maguire, City Engineer, stated work should begin in September at the time
the contract is executed.
Mayor Stout asked what the cost to the City would be for this work.
Russell Maguire, City Engineer, stated $250,000 to $300,000, and that the work
should be completed in about three months. He further added the second phase
will follow which will include six lanes.
Councilmember Alexander asked about the total cost to renovate Highland and asked
if it included the uncovering of that street.
Mike Olivier, Senior Civil Engineer, stated yes.
Councilmember Brown asked if this street would have to be torn apart again in the
future.
Russell Maguire, City Engineer, it would when the freeway went in.
Phillip Tolore, 10961 Santa Clara Court, expressed his concerns for the
closing, and now the reopening, of Highland.
City Council Minutes
August 16, 1989
Page 11
Mayor Stout stated that when the freeway is built, Highland will he covered up
and at that time the $250,000 to $300,000 will be wasted.
Philip Tolore, 10961 Santa Clara Court, asked what procedure was taken to
approve the closure to begin with.
Mayor Stout stated Caltrans closed this street, not the City.
Philip Tolore, 10961 Santa Clara Court, stated he felt it was not right
for the City to have to pay for the revamping of Highland since Caltrans
was the one to close it.
Mayor Stout stated since it was the City wanting to reopen it that they would
have to pay for the work to be done. He added that Caltrans has refused to pay
for some of the City's improvements.
Philip Tolore, 10961 Santa Clara Court, stated he hoped that something
would be done to prevent this from happening in the future.
Christina Menarri, 11430 Mt. Palomar Street, complained about the mail
deliveries in her area stating the Post Office has refused to deliver mail
to her home. She also complained about the one exit to get out of her
street, and asked for Banyan to be cut through first. She asked why the
right turn lane at Haven and 19th was closed.
Paul Rougeau, Traffic Engineer, stated he would check into this.
Al Bushtosh, 6785 Valinda, did not feel 19th was capable of handling the
amount of cars on that street, and expressed his concern about all of
these problems.
Mayor Stout asked for Russell Maguire, City Engineer, to help on the signal
installation at Victoria and Haven.
Paul Rougeau, Traffic Engineer, stated that it should be soon.
Al Bushtosh, 6785 Valinda, expressed his concerns about the speeding
vehicles on this street.
There being no further response, Mayor Stout closed the public hearing.
RESOLUTION NO. 89-374
A RESOLUTION OF THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF RANCHO
CUCAMONGA, CALIFORNIA, ADOPTING GENERAL PLAN AMENDMENT
(GPA) NO. 89-03 TO AMEND THE GENERAL PLAN CIRCULATION
ELEMENT BY THE ADDITION OF HIGHLAND AVENUE BETWEEN HAVEN
AVENUE AND DEER CREEK CHANNEL, WITH A CONNECTION TO 19TH
STREET NEAR SAN BENITO AVENUE
MOTION: Moved by Wright, seconded by Alexander to approve Resolution No. 89-374.
Motion carried unanimously 4-0-1 (Buquet absent).
City Council Minutes
August 16, 1989
Page 12
(33) F2. MODIFICATION TO DEVELOPMENT REVIEW 88-32 - NELSON - An appeal of the
Planning Commission's decision to modify a condition of approval requiring the
payment of an in -lieu fee for landscaping within the I-15 Freeway right-of-way
along the project frontage of 1.55 acres in the General Industrial Specific Plan,
located on the west side of Hyssop Drive, north of 4th Street - APN 229-331-02
(Item continued from the July 19, 1989 meeting) Staff report presented by Bret
Horner, Associate Planner. (0203-05 DES REV) (0701-06 APPEAL)
Councilmember Wright asked for the amount of fees involved in the blue section
of the map that was shown on the overhead projector.
Bret Horner, Associate Planner, stated he felt about $10,000 to $15,000 would be
involved, and that the remainder of these would be paid after the south portion
of the project was developed.
Councilmember Brown felt the fee should be shared by all those people along this
corridor.
The City Council questioned if the public hearing had been closed on this item
at the July 19, 1989 meeting.
James Markman, City Attorney, stated that according to the minutes, which the
City Council had just approved, the hearing was continued.
Councilmember Wright stated she felt the developer should be able to participate
in the discussion to decide if there was a better way of funding this
landscaping.
Mayor Stout stated that, unless there was some kind of a condition established
tonight, the developer would not have to join an assessment district prior to the
issuance of the building permit, and that his approval would be completed
tonight.
James Markman, City Attorney, referred to the memorandum that was written by
Warren Diven which stated their opinion regarding possible methods to finance the
installation and maintenance of landscaping improvements along the Interstate 15
corridor. He further stated that it would be difficult to put together this kind
of a district in that particular area. He added that if there was an assessment
district for maintenance, then Mr. Nelson might be in it and might not care for
it, but added if there is an assessment district to do the landscaping, and he's
made a per square foot contribution, he is going to get credit for it, he would
not be double assessed.
Councilmember Wright asked if there should be an Executive Session since this
dealt with advice from the City Attorney.
James Markman, City Attorney, stated only if the city Council felt there might
be litigation involved.
City Council Minutes
August 16, 1989
Page 13
Mayor Stout opened the meeting for public hearing. Addressing the -City Council
was:
John Nelson who asked for a clarification on the staff report as it
related to providing a security for the deferred cash payment.
James Markman, City Attorney, stated the City Council had changed the condition
to state if he goes to develop the property then he has to pay the fee. He
stated the way the condition should be written is that, if it is a pre -condition
of the issuance of a building permit for any development of the southerly
portion, that is security. He further stated that Mr. Nelson cannot do anything
with the property until he has paid the fee, and he did not feel that the City
Council was looking for any additional security. He commended the staff for
being thorough, but added that we do not need security other than payment of the
fee prior to building permit for the southern section.
Mr. Nelson stated he agreed with what Mr. Markman had said, and suggested
that the additional security be deleted as one of the conditions.
James Markman, City Attorney, felt it should be stated that any approval for
construction, other than dealing with the retention basin, requires the payment
of the fee.
There being no further response, Mayor Stout closed the public hearing.
James Markman, City Attorney, stated that Resolution No. 89-340 needed to be
acted upon, but it needed to include the amendments that were discussed tonight
and at the July 19, 1989 meeting.
RESOLUTION NO. 89-340
A RESOLUTION OF THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF RANCHO
CUCAMONGA, CALIFORNIA, DENYING AN APPEAL OF THE PLANNING
COMMISSION'S DECISION TO MODIFY A CONDITION OF APPROVAL
REQUIRING PAYMENT OF AN IN -LIEU FEE FOR LANDSCAPING
WITHIN THE I-15 FREEWAY (DEVORE) FREEWAY RIGHT-OF-WAY,
FOR THE DEVELOPMENT OF AN INDUSTRIAL BUILDING ON 1.55
ACRES OF LAND IN THE GENERAL INDUSTRIAL DISTRICT
(SUBAREA 14), LOCATED ON HYSSOP DRIVE AND NORTH OF 4TH
STREET, AND MAKING FINDINGS IN SUPPORT THEREOF
MOTION: Moved by Alexander, seconded by Brown to approve Resolution No. 89-340
with amendments as listed below:
"The freeway right-of-way adjacent to the project shall be
landscaped in accordance with a master plan for the entire segment
of freeway within the City as approved by Caltrans, the City
Planner, and City Engineer. However, if Caltrans will not allow the
incremental construction of this freeway landscaping with this
project, a cash payment in -lieu of construction as a contribution to
a future comprehensive project shall be made to the City prior to
the issuance of building permits. The developer's responsibility
City Council Minutes
August 16, 1989
Page 14
shall be limited to the area east of the east edge of the northbound
freeway on-ramp. A portion of the cash payment, proportional to the
amount of area within the site occupied by the retention basin
compared to the total site area, may be deferred until the filling
and development of the retention basin area (including, but not
limited to construction of any structures, parking facilities, or
storage area)."
Motion carried unanimously 4-0-1 (Buquet absent).
A recess was taken at 8:55 p.m. The meeting reconvened at 9:15 p.m. with all
members of City Council present (Buquet absent).
(34) F3. ENVIRONMENTAL ASSESSMENT AND DEVELOPMENT DISTRICTS AMENDMENT 89-02 -
BLACKMON HOMES, INCORPORATED - A request to pre -zone approximately 25 acres
located on the northeast corner of Highland and Rochester Avenues to Low Density
Residential (2-4 dwelling units per acre) - APN 225-152-01, 02, 03, 04 and 18.
ITEM CONTINUED TO THE SEPTEMBER 6, 1989 MEETING (0203-09 DD AMEN)
(35) F4. ENVIRONMENTAL ASSESSMENT AND DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT 89-03 - BLACKMON HOMES,
INCORPORATED - A request to approve a development agreement (CO 89-149) for
approximately 25 acres consisting of 78 residential lots located at the northeast
corner of Highland and Rochester Avenues - APN 225-152-01, 02, 03, 04 and 18.
ITEM CONTINUED TO THE SEPTEMBER 6, 1989 MEETING (0602-01 AGREE DEV)
(36) F5. ENVIRONMENTAL ASSESSMENT AND ANNEXATION AGREEMENT 89-03-BLACKMON HOMES,
INCORPORATED - A request to approve an annexation agreement (CO 89-150) for
development and annexation of approximately 25 acres located on the northeast
corner of Highland and Rochester Avenues - APN 225-152-01, 02, 03, 04 and 18.
ITEM CONTINUED TO THE SEPTEMBER 6, 1989 MEETING (0602-01 AGREE ANX)
ORDINANCE NO. 400 (first reading)
AN ORDINANCE OF THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF RANCHO
CUCAMONGA, CALIFORNIA, APPROVING DEVELOPMENT DISTRICT
AMENDMENT 89-02, PRE -ZONING APPROXIMATELY 25 ACRES OF
VACANT LAND TO LOW DENSITY RESIDENTIAL (2-4 DWELLING
UNITS PER ACRE) LOCATED AT THE NORTHEAST CORNER OF
HIGHLAND AND ROCHESTER AVENUES AND MAKING FINDINGS IN
SUPPORT THEREOF - APN 225-152-01, 02, 03, 04, AND 18
ORDINANCE NO. 401 (first reading)
AN ORDINANCE OF THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF RANCHO
CUCAMONGA, CALIFORNIA, APPROVING DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT
89-03 FOR APPROXIMATELY 25 ACRES OF VACANT LAND LOCATED
City Council Minutes
August 16, 1989
Page 15
AT THE NORTHEAST CORNER OF HIGHLAND AND ROCHESTER-
AVENUES,
OCHESTERAVENUES, AND MAKING FINDINGS IN SUPPORT THEREOF - APN
225-152-01, 02, 03, 04, AND 18
RESOLUTION NO. 89-375
A RESOLUTION OF THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF RANCHO
CUCAMONGA, CALIFORNIA, APPROVING ENVIRONMENTAL
ASSESSMENT AND ANNEXATION AGREEMENT 89-03 (HOMESTEAD
LAND DEVELOPMENT), FOR DEVELOPMENT AND ANNEXATION OF
APPROXIMATELY 25 ACRES OF VACANT LAND LOCATED AT THE
NORTHEAST CORNER OF HIGHLAND AND ROCHESTER AVENUES AND
MAKING FINDINGS IN SUPPORT THEREOF - APN 225-152-01, 02,
03, 04, AND 18
MOTION: Moved by Brown, seconded by Alexander to continue Items F3, F4 and F5
to the September 6, 1989 meeting. Motion carried unanimously 4-0-1 (Buquet
absent).
F6. APPEAL OF ENVIRONMENTAL ASSESSMENT AND CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 89-19 - (37)
UNIVERSAL ARCADE - An appeal of the Planning Commission's approval of a request
to establish an arcade in a leased space of 850 square feet within an existing
commercial center on 1.26 acres of land in the General Commercial District,
located at the southwest corner of Arrow Route and Malven Avenue - APN 209-04-
151. ITEM REQUESTED TO BE CONTINUED TO THE SEPTEMBER 6, 1989 MEETING (0802-02
CUP) (0701-06 APPEAL)
Mayor Stout stated that the persons appealing this item have asked for it to be
continued, but that the party wanting to establish the arcade is asking that the
hearing be held tonight due to economic hardship.
Councilmember Wright asked if there were any legal problems with doing this.
James Markman, City Attorney, stated no.
MOTION: Moved by Brown, seconded by Wright to continue the item to September 6,
1989. Motion failed 2-2-1:
AYES: Brown, Wright
NOES: Alexander, Stout
ABSENT: Buquet
James Markman, City Attorney, stated since this was a tie vote that it will be
up for public hearing at tonight's meeting.
Staff report presented by Brad Buller, City Planner, who stated all parties
concerned were present.
City Council Minutes
August 16, 1989
Page 16
Mayor Stout asked where the City has other arcades located within -the City of
Rancho Cucamonga.
Brad Buller, City Planner, stated at the southwest corner of Archibald and Base
Line, near Baskin-Robbins.
Mayor Stout opened the meeting for public hearing. Addressing City Council were:
Jan Graber -Abbot, 9786 East Arrow, stated she was against the arcade, and
that the arcade which is located at Archibald and Base Line is in a
commercial area. Her concern was that this arcade was going to be across
the street from her home, and she felt her area was strictly residential.
Jeff Abbot, 9786 East Arrow, stated he disagreed with the arcade going in
his neighborhood even though the City had discussed this with the School
District. He did not feel the arcade should go in a neighborhood area.
Terrence Batiste, applicant for the arcade, stated he has tried to work
with the Abbot's on their concerns and wanted to get along with the
surrounding community, but he felt some of the Abbot's concerns were false
fears. He stated the zoning is Cl which does allow for arcades. He
stated that he and his partner, Mike Earl, are supposed to go before the
Planning Commission in three months and that the Abbot's are welcome to be
part of the meeting. He further stated all they wanted was the
opportunity to prove themselves.
Mike Earl, applicant for the arcade and partner of Mr. Batiste, pointed
out that a Conditional Use Permit is revokable if it was not complied
with. He stated they would like the opportunity to proceed with the
arcade and give it a try.
Mayor Stout asked if they have had any experience in this type of business
before.
Mr. Earl stated he has been in various retail businesses and has had
experience in working with the youth.
Mr. Batiste added that they are concerned for the youth, and that they did
not want to do anything that would damage the image of Rancho Cucamonga.
Councilmember Wright asked what the age is' of the clientele that would be going
to the arcade.
Mr. Batiste stated 11 to 14 years of age.
Councilmember Wright asked if it was the intent for the children to come to the
arcade after school let out.
Mr. Batiste stated not necessarily.
Mr. Earl stated they are not aiming their business strictly to children.
City Council Minutes
August 16, 1989
Page 17
Councilmember Wright asked Mr. Earl what he felt the age of the clientele would
be.
o the arcade would be
Mr. Earl stated he felt the age of people coming
halftof the clientele would
between 11 and 30 years of age, and t at about
be under the age of 15.
Darlene Batiste added that there are a lot of adults who enjoy arcades
also. She stated if any problems were to occur at the arcade that they
would be dealt with. She added that they are residents of Rancho
Cucamonga and that they too, have a concern for what happens in the
community.
Councilmember Wright questioned the hours that their doors would open as it
related to the schools letting out, and asked if it would hurt their business if
they were not able to open their doors until after 5:00 p.m.
Mr. Batiste stated it would be more of an adult crowd that would be their
after 5:00 p.m.
Mr. Abbot stated he still felt loitering would occur, and that this would
be a hang out for drug users, and he did not feel he had any false fears.
Mrs. Abbot stated she did not base her life on fear, she felt it would be
more difficult for the arcade to move out of that location after they had
been established for a few months. She stated she felt they belonged in
a commercial area.
Mr. Abbot asked if there was suppose to be armed security.
Councilmember Brown stated that at the Planning Commission meeting, the Planning
Commission did not feel one tenant should have to pay for armed security for the
whole center because of the nature of their business.
There being no further response, Mayor Stout closed the public hearing.
Councilmember Alexander asked about the revocability of the Conditional Use
Permit.
James Markman, City Attorney, stated there would have to be a noticed hearing
before the Planning Commission with evidence why it should be revoked, and that
this could possibly be appealed before the City Council.
Mayor Stout asked if a Stop Order could be issued.
James Markman, City Attorney, stated it would be hard to do it for this project.
Councilmember Alexander asked Lieutenant Zeiner if there has been any problems
with arcades as they relate to the Sheriff's Department.
Lieutenant Zeiner stated not that he was aware of.
City Council Minutes
August 16, 1989
Page 18
Councilmember Alexander asked if something could be advertised in such a way to
emphasize high morals and anti-drug use, and add this to the Conditional Use
Permit.
James Markman, City Attorney, stated it would be very difficult to work this up.
Councilmember Brown read comments from the Sheriff and Fire Departments as stated
on Page 202 of the agenda. She pointed out Captain Gilmore's comments about his
concerns for the late hours and the possible fighting of the patrons of the
arcade. She stated there have been other projects with the same types of
concerns from residents. She said the question is where are the kids going to
hang out, and stated she does have concerns, and that the same kinds of
conditions should apply to this area as has been done with some of these other
projects.
Councilmember Wright stated her concern is for the close proximity of the arcade
to the two schools, and she felt there would be kids splitting from the schools
and going to the arcade. She added she felt if there was a restriction of hours
for after 5:00 p.m. that this would help. She felt the City was asking for
trouble by approving this.
Mayor Stout stated he was on the Planning Commission at the time arcades became
popular, and stated there were the same concerns at that time. He stated the
Planning Commission developed conditions at that time, and that there has not
been any problems with any of the previous arcades. He stated any of the
concerns that those people had did not materialize. He further stated he can see
where this is headed for a 2-2 vote.
James Markman, City Attorney, stated they could go through a series of motions
or could defer it until September when Councilmember Buquet comes back.
Councilmember Brown felt that Mr. Buquet might have some good input into this
since he is a Reserve Sheriff.
Councilmember Wright asked what happens if there is a tie vote.
Mayor Stout suggested that this be continued to the September 6, 1989 City
Council meeting.
MOTION: Moved by Alexander, seconded Wright to continue this item to the
September 6, 1989 meeting, and for staff to contact Councilmember Buquet to
listen to the tape so he can be better informed in order to vote on this item.
Motion carried unanimously 4-0-1 (Buquet absent).
(38) F7. CONSIDERATION OF ENVIRONMENTAL ASSESSMENT AND ISSUANCE OF A NEGATIVE
DECLARATION FOR THE PROPOSED CHURCH STREET WIDENING PROJECT FROM ARCHIBALD AVENUE
TO HAVEN AVENUE Staff report presented by Mike Olivier, Senior Civil Engineer.
(1110-10 STREET PI)
City Council Minutes
August 16, 1989
Page 19
Mayor Stout opened the meeting for public hearing. There being no response, the
public hearing was closed.
RESOLUTION NO. 89-376
A RESOLUTION OF THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF RANCHO
CUCAMONGA, CALIFORNIA, APPROVING THE ENVIRONMENTAL
ASSESSMENT INITIAL STUDY AND ISSUANCE OF A NEGATIVE
DECLARATION FOR THE PROPOSED CHURCH STREET WIDENING
PROJECT
MOTION: Moved by Brown, seconded by Alexander to approve Resolution No. 89-376.
Motion carried unanimously 4-0-1 (Buquet absent).
F8. CONSIDERATION OF THE DETACHMENT OF TRACT 12659-1 LOCATED ON THE SOUTHWEST (39)
CORNER OF ETIWANDA AVENUE AND 24TH STREET AND TRACT 12870 LOCATED ON THE NORTH
SIDE OF HIGHLAND AVENUE BETWEEN ETIWANDA AND EAST AVENUES FROM LANDSCAPE
MAINTENANCE DISTRICT NO. 1 AND ORDERING THE ANNEXATION OF TRACT NOS. 12659-1 AND
12870 TO LANDSCAPE MAINTENANCE DISTRICT NO. 7 Staff report presented by Joe
Stofa, Associate Civil Engineer. (0401-03 LANSCAPE MD) (0702-02 ANNEXATION)
Councilmember Brown asked if there would be an increase in taxes by doing this.
Jerry Fulwood, Deputy City Manager, stated there would be an increase.
Councilmember Brown asked if this would automatically put this in the new police
Mello -Roos District.
Jerry Fulwood, Deputy City Manager, stated not at this time.
Councilmember Wright asked if the issue is approved, how would all of this
happen.
Jerry Fulwood, Deputy City Manager, stated it would be a separate decision.
Mayor Stout opened the meeting for public hearing. There being no response, the
public hearing was closed.
Mayor Stout stated he felt staff's decision is fair, and that the people who buy
there would be the ones to make that decision.
Councilmember Brown stated she would like some sort of confirmation about
properties being sold so that the people buying would not all of a sudden learn
that their taxes are being increased.
RESOLUTION NO. 89-377
A RESOLUTION OF THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF RANCHO
CUCAMONGA, CALIFORNIA, APPROVING THE DETACHMENT OF TRACT NOS.
12659-1 AND 12870 FROM LANDSCAPE MAINTENANCE DISTRICT NO. 1
City Council Minutes
August 16, 1989
Page 20
AND ORDERING
SAID TRACTS
ACCEPTING THE
AND 12870
THE WORK IN CONNECTION WITH THE ANNEXATION OF
TO LANDSCAPE MAINTENANCE DISTRICT NO. 7 AND
FINAL ENGINEER'S REPORT FOR TRACT NOS. 12659-1
MOTION: Moved by Alexander, seconded by Wright to approve Resolution No. 89-377.
Motion carried unanimously 4-0-1 (Buquet absent).
Items F9 and F10 were considered at the same time.
(40) F9. APPROVAL OF ENVIRONMENTAL INITIAL STUDY AND ISSUANCE OF A NEGATIVE
DECLARATION FOR THE ETIWANDA/SAN_SEVAINE AREA MASTER PLAN OF DRAINAGE REPORT -
Recommend that the City Council adopt the attached Resolution accepting and
approving the Environmental Initial Study for the Etiwanda/San Sevaine Area
Master Plan of Drainage Report and the issuance of a Negative Declaration
therefor and direct the City Clerk to file a Notice of Determination pursuant to
the California Environmental Quality Act. (1403-06 EIS) (1170-08 STORM)
(41) F10. THE ADDITION OF A NEW CHAPTER TO TITLE 13 OF THE MUNICIPAL CODE
ESTABLISHING A DRAINAGE FEE FOR NEW DEVELOPMENT IN THE ETIWANDA AND SAN SEVAINE
AREAS - Recommend that the City Council introduce the ordinance relative to the
establishment of an Etiwanda/San Sevaine Area Drainage Plan. Staff report
presented by Walt Stickney, Associate Civil Engineer. (1170-08 STORM)
Mayor Stout opened the meeting for public hearing. Addressing the City Council
was:
Mike Robbins, 7576 Etiwanda Avenue (church facility), stated this would
have a great impact on him. He stated if they were to expand their
facilities and get building permits they would have a big increase in
taxes to pay, and stated they do not have anyone they could pass these
fees to, that they would have to pay them themselves. He felt this matter
would have a great impact on the expansion of their temple.
Mayor Stout asked if there are exemptions available.
Walt Stickney, Associate Civil Engineer, stated there are residential exemptions
available.
Russell Maguire, City Engineer, added that since they have already paid for their
five acres they would not have to pay this again.
Debra J. Adams, City Clerk, read the title of Ordinance No. 402.
City Council Minutes
August 16, 1989
Page 21
RESOLUTION NO. 89-378
A RESOLUTION OF THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF RANCHO
CUCAMONGA, CALIFORNIA, APPROVING THE ENVIRONMENTAL
INITIAL STUDY AND ISSUANCE OF A NEGATIVE DECLARATION FOR
THE ETIWANDA/SAN SEVAINE AREA MASTER PLAN OF DRAINAGE
REPORT
ORDINANCE NO. 402 (first reading)
AN ORDINANCE OF THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF RANCHO
CUCAMONGA, CALIFORNIA, ADDING A NEW CHAPTER 13.09 TO THE
RANCHO CUCAMONGA MUNICIPAL CODE, ESTABLISHING A DRAINAGE
FEE FOR ALL NEW DEVELOPMENTS WITHIN THE ETIWANDA/SAN
SEVAINE LOCAL DRAINAGE AREA
MOTION: Moved by Alexander, seconded by Brown to waive full reading of Ordinance
No. 402 and set second reading for September 6, 1989. Motion carried unanimously
4-0-1 (Buquet absent).
MOTION: Moved by Alexander, seconded by Brown to approve Resolution No. 89-378..
Motion carried unanimously 4-0-1 (Buquet absent).
G. PUBLIC HEARINGS
G1. ADOPTION OF RESOLUTION ESTABLISHING UPDATED DRAINAGE FEES IN THE ETIWANDA (42)
AND SAN SEVAINE AREAS Staff report presented by Walt Stickney, Associate Civil
Engineer. (0401-12 FEES)
RESOLUTION NO. 89-379
A RESOLUTION OF THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF RANCHO
CUCAMONGA, CALIFORNIA, ESTABLISHING UPDATED DRAINAGE
IMPROVEMENT FEES FOR ALL DEVELOPMENTS WITHIN THE
ETIWANDA/SAN SEVAINE LOCAL DRAINAGE AREA OF THE CITY OF
RANCHO CUCAMONGA
MOTION: Moved by Alexander, seconded by Brown to approve Resolution No. 89-379.
Motion carried unanimously 4-0-1 (Buquet absent).
Item I1 was discussed at this point of the meeting. Please refer to regular
order of agenda for discussion.
A recess was taken at 1:30 a.m. The meeting was reconvened at 1:33 a.m. with all
members of City Council present (Buquet and Wright absent).
City Council Minutes
August 16, 1989
Page 22
(43) G2. EMINENT DOMAIN ACTION TO ACQUIRE PUBLIC RIGHT-OF-WAY FOR THE BASE LINE ROAD
WIDENING PROJECT BETWEEN VICTORIA PARK LANE AND INTERSTATE 15 - Public Hearing
of protests regarding Eminent Domain action to acquire public right-of-way for
the Base Line Road Widening Project between Victoria Park Lane and Interstate 15
at the properties located at 13096, 12658, 12659, 12951 and 13053 Base Line Road
and 7322 Etiwanda Avenue (APN's 227-131-08, 227-111-33, 227-171-19, 1100-011-01
and 06 respectively and 227-171-04) for the construction of street improvements
across the frontage of said properties. (Continued from August 2, 1989 meeting)
ITEM CONTINUED TO THE SEPTEMBER 20, 1989 MEETING (1002-06 EM DOMAIN)
RESOLUTION NO. 89-341
A RESOLUTION OF THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF RANCHO
CUCAMONGA, CALIFORNIA, DECLARING THE PUBLIC NEED AND
NECESSITY TO CONDEMN A PORTION OF CERTAIN REAL PROPERTY
LOCATED IN THE CITY OF RANCHO CUCAMONGA AND MAKING
FINDINGS IN SUPPORT THEREOF FOR APN'S 227-131-08, 227-
111-33; 227-171-19, 1100-011-01 AND 06 AND 227-161-04
H. CITY MANAGER'S STAFF REPORTS
(44) H1. CONSIDERATION OF ISSUING A LETTER OF INTENT FOR THE CITY TO PARTICIPATE
IN A WEST END 800 MHZ COMMUNICATION SYSTEM AND TO PARTICIPATE IN A JPA FOR THE
OPERATION OF THAT SYSTEM Staff report presented by Duane Baker, Senior
Administrative Assistant. (1205-01 RADIO COM)
MOTION: Moved by Brown, seconded by Alexander to approve staff's request.
Motion carried unanimously 3-0-2 (Buquet and Wright absent).
(45) H2. FIRE HYDRANT MAINTENANCE PROGRAM - Status report on the fire hydrant
maintenance program developed jointly by the Cucamonga County Water District and
the Rancho Cucamonga Fire Protection District. Staff report presented by Chief
Dennis Michael, Rancho Cucamonga Fire Protection District. (1302-00 FIRE DIST)
ACTION: Report received and filed.
(46) H3. CONSIDERATION OF RESOLUTION REQUESTING THE COUNTY OF SAN BERNARDINO DENY
A TIME EXTENSION FOR THE ROCK CRUSHER PROJECT - Oral Report presented by Brad
Buller, City Planner. (0602-01 AGREE EXTN)
Councilmember Brown asked that the Resolution be changed in the fifth paragraph,
third line, after the word "which" that the words "by the admission of the Board
of Supervisors" be added.
City Council Minutes
August 16, 1989
Page 23
RESOLUTION NO. 89-380
A RESOLUTION OF THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF RANCHO
CUCAMONGA, CALIFORNIA, REQUESTING THE COUNTY OF SAN
BERNARDINO DENY A REQUEST FOR A TIME EXTENSION OF THE
SITE PLAN AND MINING RECLAMATION PLAN FOR THE PROJECT
KNOWN COMMONLY AS FOURTH STREET ROCK CRUSHER TO BE
LOCATED ON SAN BERNARDINO COUNTY FLOOD CONTROL PROPERTY
GENERALLY NORTH OF HIGHLAND AVENUE (ROUTE 30) BETWEEN
MILLIKEN AVENUE AND THE DAY CREEK CHANNEL
MOTION: Moved by Stout, seconded by Brown to approve Resolution No. 89-380 as
amended. Motion carried unanimously 3-0-2 (Buquet and Wright absent).
I. COUNCIL BUSINESS
I1. NORDIC WOODS UPDATE Staff report presented by Jerry Grant, Building (47)
Official. (0807-01 CODE BLDG)
Please refer to the transcript of this item which is attached and referred to as
Exhibit "A".
I2. CONSIDERATION OF PARTICIPATION IN COMMUTER RAIL LOCATION SEARCH (Oral (48)
Discussion) Staff report presented by Councilmember Brown. (1110-09 RAILROAD)
Councilmember Brown stated if Council approves this she would be taking this back
to the Commuter Rail meeting in September.
MOTION: Moved by Brown, seconded by Stout to approve the City's participation
in the Commuter Rail Location Search which may include the location of 8th and
Archibald. Motion carried unanimously 3-0-2 (Buquet and Wright absent).
J. IDENTIFICATION OF ITEMS FOR NEXT MEETING
No items were identified.
K. COW I CAT I ONS FROM THE PUBL I C
No communication was made from the public.
City Council Minutes
August 16, 1989
Page 24
L. ADJOURNMENT _
MOTION: Moved by Brown, seconded by Alexander to adjourn to Executive Session
to discuss pending litigation regarding the Rivard Lawsuit. Motion carried
unanimously 3-0-2 (Buquet and Wright absent). Meeting adjourned at 1:38 a.m.
Res ectfully submitted,
ebra J. Aa s
City Clerk
Approved: September 20, 1989
CERTIFIED
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i Barrett . Dawson . Melman
RANCHO CUCAMONGA, CALIFORNIA
IN THE MATTER OF }
TRANSCRIPT OF TAPES.-
RANCHO
APES:RANCHO CUCAMONGA CITY COUNCIL
MEETING }
ITEM I-1: NORDIC WOODS UPDATE )
TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
Rancho Cucamonga, California
August 16, 1989
C. Anne Braun
1630 E. Palm Street
P.O. Box 11466
Santa Ana, CA
92701
(714) 558-9400
(213) 637- 35 50
FAX
(714) 836-5195
A P P E A R A N C E S
DENNIS L. STOUT
Mayor
DEBORAH N. BROWN, Councilwoman
WILLIAM J. ALEXANDER, Councilman
CHARLES J. BUQUET, II, Councilman
PAMELA J. WRIGHT, Councilwoman
JACK LAM
City Manager
JAMES MARKMAN
City Attorney
JERRY GRANT
Building Official
BRAD BULLER
City Planner
RUSSELL MAGUIRE
City Engineer
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RANCHO CUCAMONGA, CALIFORNIA; WEDNESDAY, AUGUST 16, 1989
MR. GRANT: Yes, Mr. Mayor, Members of the City
Council: This matter was requested by Mr. Bennett to come
before the City Council on the 5th of July, and at that
time the Mayor, as I recall, asked that the list of items
be submitted to Staff in order that Staff might provide a
more complete report.
That, as yet, has not been done; however, in
light of the information given by Mr. Bennett at the
meeting and other comments that have been received in
Building and Safety and other agencies of the City, there
are a number of issues that appear to warrant exploration
and action.
In the report -- unfortunately dated the
wrong date, August 8th, there is a number of items that
related to Sheriff's enforcement activities. One was
parking on the street; obstruction of a bus stop; and some
parties that were apparently held from time to time, young
people up at the upper end of Hermosa.
The Sheriff's Department has had several
meetings with regard to those, and advised the community,
The Woods Community, that because they must prioritize
their calls based on severity and importance, they
sometimes cannot get there immediately, but that they
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would make an effort to respond as quickly as possible.
They also suggested -- the Community
suggested that perhaps a mounted citizens' patrol be
formed for Neighborhood Watch purposes. The Sheriff's
Office held a meeting of those interested people.
Four people attended. They were provided information at
that time as to the methodology of performing this watch
and that information has not come back to the Sheriff at
this time.
Item Number 5 in the report deals with the
quality of constructure or customer service. The
Building and Safety Division has been most involved in
that, I believe.
As the Council is aware, we have been
restricting inspections, if you would, on the
Nordic Woods and the Nordic Woodridge projects, and have
had some success in gaining cooperation from the
developer.
The major problem appeared to be from those
customer complaints. One, of just the lack of attention
and lack of customer service on the part of the developer.
We have had several meetings with the contractor, who is a
partner -- we had a meeting with the contractor, who is a
party in the business, and we have had a second -- had two
other meetings with the man who handles the financial
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aspects of the business. He is not a contractor. They
have made a number of pledges to improve the service and
they have made a fair amount of progress in replacing some
driveways and concrete and so forth; very slow progress,
however, and there are still a number of things to be
done.
We have indicated to them that we would
continue to restrict the inspections in The Woods, so as
to try to put some pressure on the contractor to complete
those Customer Service issues.
That has put us in Building and Safety on
kind of a tightrope right now, because we're faced with
complaints from some of the owners because the Company has
not gone back and provided service complaints, and from
other property owners because we are not making
inspections to hurry along their occupancy.
So we're kind of damned if we do and damned
if we don't. We are releasing these in a measured fashion
as progress proceeds, and there has been some progress in
the past week, particularly in the area of the driveway
replacements.
I believe at the meeting there was a mention
made of lack of maintenance on the equestrian trails.
With one exception, the trials in the community are
private trails. The community trail has been reviewed by
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the Maintenance -- Public Works Maintenance, and will
continue to be maintained by that.
There was also a reference to a drainage
problem. The drainage problem was created as a result of
water leaving its -- Russ can probably explain this
better -- but as I understand, there is a culvert that
goes under the street, and the water, instead of following
the culvert, jumped the curb, went across the street
through a drive approach and proceeded down the trail on
private property. That has since been rectified.
There is a containment wall put around the
basin and the drive approach has been altered by the
Developer so as to provide more slope. And as I recall,
there's also a barrier been placed at that drive approach
so that the water will not divert down the private
approach.
Street sweeping was another reference that
was made. The street sweeping -- the debris from the
street sweeping was apparently, in large part,
contribution from the developer. The streets are swept on
a two-week schedule, as are the other streets in the city.
We've asked the contractor to refrain from messing up the
streets as he has been.
I've been up there several times this past
week and the traffic -- the blocking of the street appears
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to have been improved. There were two cars, as I recall,
at the most, parked when I went up there, in the street.
We asked the contractor to also keep his people off the
street because it is narrow.
Incidentally, the narrowness of the street or
the parking on the street -- when The Woods was developed,
the streets were purposely made exclusive of parking
lanes. They were done that way to try to save the
atmosphere of the trees and the woodsy atmosphere up
there, retain more of the trees. So the streets are
narrow and they were never designed to have parking on
them. It's not posted "No Parking," but they were never
designed to accommodate parking.
Mr. Bennett indicated a lack of coordination,
as I recall, in the review processes that the City
undertakes apparently in reference to the allowance for
some construction within the subdivision. The original
CC&R's for the project which were developed at the time of
subdivision were apparently fairly well controlled when
the original developer, Mr. Scott, was active. When his
bank assumed the responsibility from him, that review
process seemed to fall apart. That was the private
developer -- private review committee within The Woods
itself, comprised of the owners of the property.
Most of our residential districts have some
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type of CC&R's, but these are regulations, if you would,
that are imposed upon themselves by the Community who buys
into the subdivision, and enforced by the Community rather
than by the City. So the City has really no -- no legal
authority to enforce those private agreements.
Reference was made to some structures -- I
believe it was three -car garages that were constructed
that were contrary to the CC&R's. The individual,
single-family dwellings, rather than a subdivision
itself -- this is outside the Nordic Development area --
the individual residences that were constructed by
independent contractors up there -- or builders, are not
subject to the design review unless the Planning Staff is
of the opinion that they are not in keepng with the
architecture or architectural theme of the neighborhood.
So in this case, there very well may be some
of those homes that have been constructed without the
approval of the Committee, because the Committee is
essentially nonexistent for sometime.
That concludes my report. I'll try to answer
any questions. There are a number of residents that are
in The Woods who indicated they would like to make some
statements.
MAYOR STOUT: Thank you, Mr. Grant. Any questions
at this time?
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Okay. All right. The hearing is open.
Those wishing to address us, this would be the
opportunity.
MR. MARTINO: My name is Steve Martino. I reside
at 9570 Apricot Avenue, Alta Loma. I live in The Woods or
in Nordic Development right now. I am -- to purchase the
property in the Woodridge development, which is
Tract 13644, Lot No. 14.
I entered into this agreement with
Woodridge Estates, which is a limited partnership, not
exactly with Nordic Development. I was unable to find out
from Staff and other people who actually pulled the permit
for Woodridge Estates, whether it was under Woodridge
Estates or Nordic Development today, but I entered into
this agreement with Woodridge Estates.
I have talked to Mr. Grant today and he has
told me that the inspections had been released in the
Woodridge Estates to go ahead with the construction and
approval for final inspection, hopefully, so we can move
into our house.
We're currently renting back our existing
home and will have to go into rental property at the end
of this month because the home is not going to be
completed on schedule.
I do want to compliment the Staff for trying
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to help the homeowners who are up there now with the
problems that they are experiencing with regard -to
customer service; however, I would question the way they
are doing it, whether it's legal or not. The development
that we're buying into, as far as I know, has approved
plans. They have paid out the Building Permit fees. They
have been building those particular homes according to
what, I would have to assume, are proper standards since
they've been passing inspection -- inspections have been
released.
So I would question whether or not it's legal
for inspections to be withheld on another development
based on customer service problems on homes that have
already passed final inspection, and whether those homes
are under the jurisdiction of the Building Department.
And basically, we're looking at a situation
where the developer, in my opinion, is somewhat
misorganized in doing things, having problems either
intentionally or nonintentionally, not getting things done
correctly, and then the City withholding inspections is
just probably aggravting our time in getting in the home.
From what I've been told from Staff, it's
mainly been a delay because of enforced -- as an act of
enforcement by the Building Department to cause nor to
respond to customer requests on the other developments
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since nobody has actually moved into the development that
we're in escrow with right now.
And I just feel that possibly holding us back
in being -- the ability to move into our home would be
unfair treatment to us withholding our residency. I
understand that they do have a lot of problems. I've gone
up there and talked to people so I do know about -- I
guess what you could say -- alleged negligence or
nonresponsive attitude up there. I've also experienced it
from them during my course of this relationship with
Nordic, just trying to buy the home and with other
problems that we've had. But with our situation being
that we don't own a home now. We have sold our home. We
do want to get our new home. We'd like to be able to get
into a home and have a problem. It's as simple as that.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: You definitely will.
MAYOR STOUT: Please, please.
MR. MARTINO: My recourse would be, if I was having
a problem, to take the proper action -- I would deem to be
proper action -- I've already sought counsel as to a
potential problem, and they told me that the proper
governmental agency to go after to try and get recourse
would be some kind of a court action to get enforcement.
And I would just question --
I had a couple of questions that I wanted to
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ask, and I'll just ask these questions and leave it at
that. Is the Staff's current position of contrdlling the
release of inspections on my tract, 13644, based upon the
Staff's determination of the response low of Nordic's
Customer Service Department legal? Do they have that
authority? Does the Building Department --
Number two: Does the Building Department
have the authority to receive complaints from the home
owners, who are living in homes that have passed final
inspection and then arbitrarily decide negligence on
Nordic's part and then level a punative action against
Nordic and my family by withholding us getting in,
inspections to enforce compliance?
And then also, Mr. Grant told me today that
he was going to be releasing inspections on Woodridge
because he saw firm response to it. And I appreciate
that; but I also question if there was a reversal, which
there could quite definitely be if they don't -- you know,
they go back to not responding to people who are already
in their homes -- if they reverse that and the attitude
changes back to worse than what it is now, would the Staff
again withhold inspections as some type of enforcement to
start getting customer service going again.
And then finally, is the City of Rancho
Cucamonga the final governmental agency to decide Nordic's
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performance in its contract or obligations and take
enforcement action on properties that have alreAdy passed
final inspection?
MAYOR STOUT: Mr. Markman.
MR. MARKMAN: Here's the way I look at this: I've
discussed it with the Staff. No, of course it's not right
to penalize Nordic -- to leverage Nordic by withholding
inspections of another tract, if you want to look at it
that way. But that's not the way I look at this.
If I have a thousand hours in the
Building Department to devote to the City of
Rancho Cucamonga and I have to allocate my manpower, and
there are 50 people here who are requiring building
inspectors and the building official and the assistant
building official to spend dozens if not hundreds of hours
dealing with problems generated because of allegations
that Nordic is not built to Code, then I have to decide,
where am I going to allocate all my inspectors? And I ask
you, would you allocate your inspectors who are already
working on the same company to the tune of dozens if not
hundreds of hours to the same level you normally would
allocate them to another Nordic track? In other words,
they have created -- and I don't know if it's the same
organization -- but the Nordic Development Company, which
is connected with Woodridge, by their own admission and
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their attorneys' admission, has created a tremendous load
on our Building Department, a much greater load -that would
normally be indicated on a tract that would be
theoretically completed. So the Building official has to
allocate his resources.
And he's going to allocate so many resources
to this development, so much to Terravista, so much to
Victoria. That's the way I look at my discussions with
the Building official. He has to allocate his resources
to the extent that the problems are solved and he doesn't
have to keep sending himself or Jim Martin or building
inspectors out to the Woods. He's got more manpower to
devote to inspections in Woodridge or any other place in
the city. So that's the way we looked at it.
I think you're drawing a connection that
Nordic would like to draw, but I look at it as, you know,
how much time do we have in the Building Department to
devote to Nordic Development. It's two developments, and,
you know, we're not just going to drop everything else in
the City of Rancho Cucamonga.
In fact, I would expect other projects are
suffering too because of this load that Nordic has created
through these citizens' complaints for the last several
months, which can't be ignored. That's the way I look at
25 1 it.
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MR. MARTINO: I understand what you are saying. In
fact, the Staff had mentioned, and I also mentianed, if I
was on the other side of the street and I was inside the
homes that were having problems, I would quite -- probably
most definitely, be on the other side. In fact, the
statement I mentioned that I was being utilized by Nordic
to try and serve their purposes, which, you know, what I
thought of that, I said "Fine. I understand what you are
saying," but I have to put my pride in my back pocket. I
have five children that I have to get inside of a home and
that's my main priority right now.
MR. MARKHAM: I know, and that's understood.
What I'm trying to tell you is: Nobody's trying to punish
people getting ready to move into a home because Nordic is
not doing something over here. But there's only so many
human beings to go around and so many inspectors.
And they have created a load in my office,
too. I spend an enormous amount of time sitting down with
the Staff and looking at all these allegations regarding
Nordic Development that could have been spent doing other
things for the City of Rancho Cucamonga. 50, 1 mean,
that's the way I just look at what's going around, and if
I were you, I'd ask Nordic why they aren't correcting
these other problems so that more building inspectors can
run up to your tract and inspect your house rather than
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inspecting what's wrong with their houses.
MR. MARTINO: Well, there is no question -as to the
problem that Nordic is having over there. But the one
point that I keep having to revert back to is, if you're
talking about the work load, is the higher work load due
to customer complaints or just Nordic requesting people to
come out and inspect the buildings that have permits?
MR. MARKHAM: I would say that there's been a
generation of an enormous amount of work in the
Building Department -- building officials' department
based on what's happened in the Woods and the Complaints
and the manpower that's gone -- I mean, we've had an
assistant city manager out, a deputy city manager -- I
mean, virtually everybody in the City system has been
devoting hours and hours to these complaints and that
diverts them from doing other things, and particularly the
building inspector.
MR. MARTINO: Well, it's taking everybody's time;
but I'm talking about my time.
MR. MARKHAM: My response to this is this: There
is an answer to all this and it's in your Seller's hands
and it has been for months. Get out there, get the funds
out and solve the problem so the inspectors can go to your
next project and move it along instead of dwelling on the
one project you didn't do right in the first place.
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1 That's where it is, in a nutshell. We're stuck with it.
2 We have to respond to them. We try to respond to you,
3 too.
4 MR. MARTINO: Well, there's still some statements
5 in Staff's report such as enforcement, withholding of
6 inspections for enforcement purposes. Is that a legal
7 activity for the Building Department to do?
g MR. MARK14AN: I'm just saying that Staff
9 characterizes it as withholding inspections. I
10 characterize it as allocating manpower. And so, I mean,
11 you can look at it in one way or the other, but there is
12 only so many men to go around. There is a demand on these
13 inspectors. And like I say, if Nordic solves these
14 problems, the inspectors could be released to your tracts
15 or other tracts.
16 I'm sure they have slowed down a lot of
17 inspection activity hour for hour, so I realize -- I read
18 Jerry's letter. He's a very candid guy. But basically
19 he's got so many people to send around, including himself.
20 And he's spent a whole lot of time -- and so has my
21 office -- worrying about The Woods and not Woodridge.
22 And hopefully four months from now we won't be doing the
23 same thing with you. Excuse me.
24 I also agree with you that people should
25 understand they do have a remedy. You are correct. They
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have a remedy. It doesn't solve the City's obligation to
see that the construction was done right, which'is our
major allegation, but there is a remedy. They have a
breach of warranty suit back against the developer for
every cent it costs them to correct these matters,
especially when there is any number of them suffering the
same problems.
But the fact they have a remedy doesn't
erradicate the City's obligation to respond to their
complaints and that takes building inspectors.
So when Jerry says he's withholding people, I
mean the way I characterize it is he's allocating his
resources to the Nordic development thing which supposedly
was done already and it isn't done.
MR. MARTINO: Then in answer to my first question
that City Council or Staff does consider it a legal
activity?
MR. MARKMAN: Do I consider his allocation of
manpower legal?
MR. MARTINO: No, the withholding of enforcement --
MR. MARKMAN: I consider the allocation of his
manpower a legal --
MR. MARTINO: Not according to his statement. And
his statement was a misstatement in the actual Staff
report.
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MR. MARKMAN: Well, I know he -- I don't even know
if it's a misstatement. What he's really telling you is:
How can I release inspectors to do the work on this tract
when they're all busy running around this other tract
looking at all these people's homes, responding
complaints.
MR. MARTINO: Are the homes that have already
passed final inspection still under the authority of the
Building Department for enforcement?
MR. MARKMAN: Sure. When somebody shows up and
says: Will you look at this and see whether it was done
per Code and we find out it wasn't, it starts to be a
problem indigenous to the whole tract, we have an
obligation to find out whether that's correct or not. I
think the City recognizes that obligation.
MR. MARTINO: Okay. Then also, if they respond --
MR. MARKMAN: I'm not trying to be combative --
MR. MARTINO: No, I understand. I'm asking
questions and getting my answers. That's my purpose. I'm
just trying to get a position. If Nordic returns to a
nonresponsive attitude, where it's worse off -- I mean,
I'm sure it's not where they want it to be, but
something's been going on. There again, I know I'm going
to have problems. But I've already decided how I'm going
to go about solving them and I'm not going to rely on the
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City to solve them.
MR. MARKMAN: All I can tell you is if Nordic --
they -- you know, if it just stops then they'll comply --
there are only so many things that we can look at. If the
manpower is there, we are going to inspect the tract. The
fact is, that there has been a thorough going -- I mean,
this report is kind of encapsulating of a thorough ongoing
investigation. It took a lot of manpower in the
Building Department. And, you know, they had to make that
allocation. If they stopped correcting the problem,
unless somebody says there's something new to look at,
there is nothing new to look at.
They're not going to sit there and say:
We're going to stop your other process until you correct
these problems. Because -- I mean, everybody realizes
there's people like you waiting in there. That's not the
case.
MR. MARTINO: Could Staff tell me the number of
people -- I mean -- is there an actual figure or number
that are very much motivated with regards to customer
service problems? Is it 10, 15, 20 people in the
Nordic Development that have actual problems? What's the
number of people that actually have complaints on file?
Not the number of complaints per home, but how many
people, per se --
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MR. MARKMAN: I suspect that we will hear from
quite a few in a minute. "
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: We have 11.
MR. MARKMAN: Eleven written complaints on
different homes?
MR. MARINO: It is currently, as far as I've been
apprised, 13 people who have been into escrow over a year
ago with Woodridge Estates that have been waiting for over
a year to get into those homes right now.
MR. MARKMAN: I understand. Your point is very
clear.
MR. MARINO: What I am saying is: There are
23 people who have entered into a situation where they
have bought homes a year ago and the purchase price of
their homes have been fixed at the purchase price a year
ago. Each one of those homes has probably appreciated --
based on Nordic's new tracts, the same homes -- over a
hundred and thirty to $140,000.
Each of those people have a vested interest
not to fall through somehow on the sale, and these are
people that I've talked to that are very concerned about
any further delay. We have people that are renting back
up to $3500 a month where they're living at waiting for --
MR. MARKMAN: Are you suggesting that Nordic may be
dragging its feet so that you guys fall out of escrow,
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they can sell the houses for more?
MR. MARINO: If that's what you want to say. I'm
not saying that Nordic's a bad guy. I'm just saying that
I'm sitting out in a rental property with my family right
now and I want to get in before they go bankrupt or
something like that. And I have to pursue whatever course
of action I can to take care of that problem.
I know the partners are planning on splitting
up pretty soon. I've had some very, very open talk with a
couple of them. I know that the company is not going to
be the same in about two months -- two or three months --
they've already moved. I'm within two months of moving
into my home and I'm pursuing any kind of action to make
sure that I can get in there as soon as possible before
problems happen.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: This man is not a part of
our group. We had to come to the council meeting of
July 5th and request this. We have waited. He is not any
part of our group. And I think this is the agenda that
was on the meeting.
MAYOR STOUT: He has the right to speak just like
any other citizen.
Who are you, by the way?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: We're with the Nordic Woods.
MAYOR STOUT: No. What's your name?
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UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: George Bennett.
MAYOR STOUT: Mr. Bennett, I wanted to tank to you
tonight anyway as soon as we get up here. I asked you to
do something for us at our last meeting, and that was to
put together a written list of problems. And I don't see
it.
MR. BENNETT: Well, we requested it from the
community and then I think --
MAYOR STOUT: I know, Mr. Bennett. But you made an
agreement with me at our last meeting that you would put
together a written list of problems amongst your neighbors
and submit it to the Council. I asked our Staff to call
you twice to get that list and we've never received it.
MR. BENNETT: The Staff never called me. And I
wrote a letter, a registered letter, requesting problems
on Nordic. My problem is not Nordic. I made copies of
that letter, passed it out to the people and asked them to
respond.
I also made copies of problems and solutions
to present
MAYOR STOUT: All right. Just a minute. Let
Mr. Martino finish.
MR. MARINO: Just one final thing and I'll let
these people speak. I just wanted to get in and say this
because I knew it was different from what was going to be
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repeated and I just wanted -- I think the final goal
should be for everybody to get into their homes -and have
the customer service problems taken care of. We have to
realize that we're dealing with a company that might not
exist in a few months if they get pressured too far. And
my main concern is that if the proper -- we have to try to
get what we can get out of them before they realize it's
not in their interest to hang around.
MAYOR STOUT: We understand that. We just don't
want you to be sitting out here three months from now with
the same problem they've got.
MR. MARINO: Well, you know, my situation is that I
just bought a home a year ago which I can't replace with
like value right now. And my situation is that I would
like to -- I'm looking at a potential loss of over
$100,000 if I have to repurchase this home again at
today's prices versus a year ago. Everybody knows what
happened up here with property. And when I look at that
in comparison without a square drywall --
I'm in the construction business. When I
look at that in comparison with driveways that are
cracked, out of square drywalls, looking at two different
levels. I could live with those problems if I could
recover what I had a year ago.
MAYOR STOUT: We understand.
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MR. MARINO: Thank you for your time.
MAYOR STOUT: Mr. Bennett. Yes. He's the one that
brought this to our attention. Come forward, Mr. Bennett.
As a matter of fact, if you would have been quicker
earlier I would have gotten to you first, Mr. Bennett.
MR. BENNETT: In response to your request -- yes,
the City Council did request that I bring the problems in
written form before the City Council. I made sheets -- I
made up sheets with these problems attached similar to
this. I passed them out to each one of the residents. We
had a community meeting. A spokesman was elected for the
community. I know I -- my wife turned in ours to the
spokesman. But I think we did make a concerted effort
to --
MAYOR STOUT: The reason I did that, and I don't
want to put you on the spot was: I wanted to go out and
take this list and look at some of these things so I'd
have the opportunity to eyeball them myself. So I didn't
have the opportunity. So I don't feel like -- I mean, I
can listen to what's being said, but I didn't have the
opportunity to prepare myself and I really wanted to do
that. That's why I asked for that.
MR. BENNETT: You know, the one problem we found
out -- and I think it's typical of all people -- it's easy
to get up and talk and relate your problems, but to ask
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them to reduce it to writing, you've seen reports, they're
very brief or whatever. People are just reluctant to do
it. But I spent quite a few man hours trying to do just
what you requested. Could I turn this -- I've got my
individual problems. But I think our speaker wanted to
start off.
MAYOR STOUT: Yes, please.
MR. KUNCKLE: Mr. Mayor, Councilmembers, my name is
Kim Kunckle. My address is 10132 Whispering Forest. I am
an architectural committee member and I speak on behalf of
the residents. I'm only referring here to one problem,
our CC&R problem that was brought up earlier. We'll have
other speakers to discuss some of the other issued.
A resolution issued by the Planning
Commission, it was Number 83-08. It mandated the
foremention of CC&R's prior to our development of our
area. The CC&R's were in fact formed, appraised and
recorded. The Architectural Committee was formed in
connection with the CC&R's to approve permit applications
prior to the City permit issuance.
The City, in fact, abided by the CC&R's until
Dick Scott, a committee member, transferred his control to
his bank. The City has since issued permits without
Committee approval in a violation of CC&R's. For
instance, we have our -car garages, we have block walls.
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We have in some instances excess tree cutting. And we
have horse trail easement encroachment.
Planning tells us they cannot use taxpayers'
money to enforce private CC&R's. Our question is: If
Planning is right, then why did the City mandate and
appraise the CC&R's and then abide by them until
Dick Scott relinquished his authority.
Also, we wonder: How would taxpayer money be
involved, expended, if the building required approval of
building plans prior to permit issuance?
The reason we feel doesn't quite hit squarely
on the issue. Planning's reason, again, for not honoring
the CC&R's is that they'll use taxpayer money for
enforcement.
Well, the word "enforcement" confuses us a
little bit. We have not asked them to enforce the CC&R's.
We've asked them simply to honor them by -- excuse me --
we've asked them to honor them by going through our
Architectural Committee first. When they say they want
enforcement, they're presupposing a conflict that never
occurred when the City did honor the CC&R's. And we have
no proof at this time that we'd have any conflicts now.
The enforcement that would involve taxpayer money we think
is a separate issue.
We ask then that the Council cause the
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Building Department to honor our CC&R's, which, again, are
mandated. We ask the the Building Department require
Architectural Committee approval prior to issuing a
building permit.
Can I answer any questions?
MAYOR STOUT: I'd like to ask some questions of our
attorney. What's the situation with the CC&R's?
MR. MARKMAN: It is just as Brad stated. The
reason -- I will first of all make this real clear and
simple. The City does require CC&R's. Most cities do,
not to enforce them, but be sure there's a mechanism in
place for seeing that some policies are implemented, the
classic one being the private horse trail, if you have
common areas or something like that or some system set up
to maintain the common areas and the fund created to start
that up, and the City reviews CC&R's for those purposes.
The City cannot enforce, by way of refusing
to issue building permits, without Architectural Committee
approval, cannot enforce that part of CC&R's. I know of
no city that does that. The City can enforce design or
review standards, Building Code standards, and any
conditions of approval of the tract.
But what it can't do -- and we would be
subject to a writ of mandate action enforcing us to issue
the building permit, is to hold up somebody's building a
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house up based on our Architectural Committee not agreeing
or waiting for the action of the Architectural Committee.
We can't do that unless the CC&R's stated that the City
was a party to them and could do that, which most don't
say.
Frankly, cities just don't -- that would
create, essentially, another level of designer review
board monitored and administered in the city as another
step to administering the building permit. I don't know
of any city that does that and I represent six of them
right now; my partner represents another one. So that's
the response.
As far as honoring them is concerned, if
Scott was managing to get Architectural Committee approval
and had it on his way into get the building permits, and
if, in fact, Nordic continued to do that, I'm sure that
would make the City -- give the City more comfort. But we
can't enforce those. We can't say: We will not give you
a building permit until you show us the Architectural
Review Committee appraised something. We have no
jurisdictions to do that. The Council can direct us to do
that, but we don't have the legal jurisdiction to do it.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: As a practical matter, when
Scott was developing, wasn't he building tract houses at
that time? I think he did build tract houses and those
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were subject to the design review of the City because we
have a policy to design review tract houses.
I was on a design review committee when that
was happening. I don't recall ever having a discussion
about CC&R's or whether they were approved by an
architectural committee or not. But he was, at least in
my opinion -- when he was going through design review --
subject to the City's design processes.
But the problem you're talking about, I
think, is like on individual -type custom -type houses;
isn't it? Or are there tracts that are going through that
haven't --
MR. KUNCKEL: On custom houses and subsequent
building -- modifications, second two -car garages, for
example --
MR. MARKMAN: But if someone comes in to the City
and says: Here, we've got plans worked up to, you know,
put a block wall or something like that, takes a building
permit and doesn't violate any City condition, meets the
Building Code and doesn't violate a design or review
standard or rendering, we've got to issue it. And we've
got to issue it. We can't go back and say: You know,
bring us approval of a private contractual committee. You
guys can stop it. You might even be able to get them to
take it down if it violates your standards by way of
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private rights, enforced by private lawyers, but we can't
do it. And Brad is right about that.
I might also add that it's very similar to
other home owners' association and CC&R's. I guess I
could point to other examples -- there are similar
architectural review committees are set up. They aren't
set up because the City requested them to be set up. They
were set up because the developer at the time -- whoever
that was -- desired to have some kind of control as to
what kind of homes or designs that person wanted.
But that can change over time. I could point
to Deer Creek where the homeowner's association is so
strong you can hardly paint your house a different color
without going through the homeowner's architectural
committee. Because the moment someone didn't follow that,
they'd get sued. That's how the mechanism works. You get
these particular design issues solved in a homeowner's
association.
MR. KUNCKEL: Can you tell me what caused the
City -- the Building Department to honor them in the
beginning and then stop?
MR. MARKMAN: I don't think it's a question of
honoring them. If Scott controlled those homes, he
controlled the plans submitted to the Building Department.
And the Building Department saw whatever it was that Scott
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saw. So it's not a question of enforcing the CC&R's.
MR. KUNCKEL: There is one custom home on the
corner of Hermosa and Whispering Forest that was denied a
four -car garage by the Building Department because
architectural committee approval had not been obtained
first. And of course, Scott would not grant --
MAYOR STOUT: Mr. Grant, do you recall a situation
like that? You're the one who issued the permits.
MR. GRANT: Mr. Mayor, I don't recall that, but I
don't issue all those permits. We would normally not be
involved in CC&R's.
MAYOR STOUT: Brad, do you know anything about
that?
MR. BULLER: During the early development of the
project with some custom homes, there was some of our
staff members who were cognizant of the CC&R's, and as
individual homeowners were coming through, we advised them
of some of the restrictions and we worked with the
homeowners to come into compliance with those CC&R's. But
I don't believe we've ever denied a building permit based
on a homeowner's push. We have tried to encourage them to
comply with the CC&R's. And I think Mike Grossal is one
who is going to get up. He is the one in particular who I
think raised this issue, and he dealt directly with one of
our staff members, Dan Coleman, on the matter.
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MR. GROSSAL: My name is Mike Grossal. I'm a
resident of The Woods. And first of all, I would like to
clarify that the standing at this point, is that the
City Attorney and the Council believes that they cannot
enforce or help the community enforce the existing CC&R's.
That's what I've been told through the Planning Department
and through other agencies in the city.
When I purchased my property, I purchased it
from First Federal Savings. And at that time I received a
set of CC&R's that I was requested to abide by by
First Federal Savings prior to submitting my plans for a
building permit.
MAYOR STOUT: Is this the bank that they've talked
about, that Dick Scott turned the --
MR. GROSSAL: Yes. There were 13 lots in the
community that were taken over by First Federal Savings.
MAYOR STOUT: Okay.
MR. GROSSAL: And Mr. Barry Anderson was the
gentleman at that time that was entrusted in the
evaluation of architectural plans for that particular
13 lots at that time. His whole encompass of, what they
would call Phase I, which was 30 lots, there were 13 lots
that were sold off as customs.
MAYOR STOUT: Okay.
MR. GROSSAL: At that time I was working with
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Mr. Scott Murphy that was at the Planning Department at
that time. And one of his requirements placed upon myself
was to obtain architectural committee approval prior to
the issuance of a building permit. And my concern is the
inconsistency of that that we're seeing. And I think some
of the other members of the community are also concerned
about that.
We have notified the Planning Department
several times. We've sent letters -- and I have copies
also to you, Mr. Stout, and Debra Brown, Building
Department, Mr. Tom Graham, an assistant planner, in April
and reminded him again that there is an architectural
committee. I sent a letter to everybody, Mr. Stout and
Debra Brown, on June 5th of this year again reminding them
with a letter from the bank when the bank requested to
turn over his responsibilities to the homeowners or the
architectural committee.
My whole problem is: At the time I was
trying to achieve receiving a building permit, that these
restrictions were placed upon myself. On looking back at
it now as a concerned citizen in a community that I wanted
to abide by them, but maybe I shouldn't have and built the
four -car garage and done some other improvements that
maybe weren't according to the CC&R's, and maybe my
property would be worth more in value today.
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My question is the inconsistency of the
inspections and the requirements. We have seen -that
periodically now throughout this development. We are
concerned with the future development as far as -- most
people want to stay in a home four to five years and then
resell and then somebody coming in. We're concerned about
all these things that are going to happen -- now --
additional two -car garages being put up, more trees being
removed, people putting in pools and tennis courts and so
on and so forth, which is going to have a major effect on
that community, which we feel we are unique in the city of
Rancho Cucamonga.
The inconsistency is what I'm concerned
about. We have brought it to very -- many people in
different agencies and especially to Mr. Dan Coleman. And
we met with Mr. Dan Coleman prior to some issuance of
permits and were told point blank, myself and
Mr. Kunckel and Jim Mayfase that the permits for a block
wall would not be issued until it was brought before the
Planning Commission. And that was on a Wednesday. On
Friday the homeowner received a permit to put in a block
wall.
Prior to them pouring any concrete on their
wall, the Building Department, Planning Department was
notified that we were concerned that the wall was going to
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be installed encroaching upon a recorded easement. And I
spoke to the field inspector himself, went to the Building
Department and looked at the plans that were on file. It
did not resemble the in -field work that was being
completed.
I brought it to Dan Coleman's attention.
They proceeded with work. And I know Code Enforcement was
up there a couple of times to talk with the homeowner.
Our concern is: The City puts out little
pamphlets. They have in writing, procedures for
inspections. I know in my particular instance the City
doesn't require for lathing to be completed on the
exterior of the building for frame inspection, although I
was cited by Mr. Gary Gibbons when I was building my
house, that he wouldn't give me an inspection unless the
lath was complete on the building. I was charged an extra
$20 in inspection fees when it's not part of the City's
criterias in writing.
At that time I went to see Mr. Jim Schroeder
and he informed me that it's up to the field inspector to
make his own judgment.
What I see, and what I see in the development
across the street from me -- and I am in the construction
business -- that there are blatant Code violations being
25 1 overlooked. And I think it's up to the Council and the
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Building Department to get together and decide if they're
going to investigate these thoroughly and see what the
inconsistencies are on these inspections.
I received a letter from the Planning
Department regarding a removal of six trees for a neighbor
across the street from me. And I spoke to the homeowner.
And he previously had -- from my understanding -- that he
had an approved grading plan and the removal of the trees
was necessary to complete his grading plan, number one.
Number two is that if the trees were left
there, they were going to be completely buried and they
would die anyway. Now, this gentleman has been put
through, what I would consider, over and above or swinging
the pendulum the other way when we're letting the neighbor
right across the street put in a block wall with an
unimproved plan which was brought to both the Building and
Planning Department's attention prior to placement of
concrete. We feel he has placed concrete in a recorded
easement, removed an existing -- and the response is:
That's the way it is. We consider it an improvement.
We need to have some consistency between the
inspections and the continuity between the departments.
That's what we're asking.
MAYOR STOUT: You indicated that there are blatant
code violations going on across the street?
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MR. GROSSEL: Well, I have observed them myself.
MAYOR STOUT: I'm not an expert in the building
area. Can you be more specific?
MR. GROSSEL: Well, I have seen -- just briefly
walking through the units -- and I know there are some
considerations for septic tanks and installation which at
the time that I built my unit, Mr. Gary Gibbons required
that I have photographs on file, a grading plan with
measurements, knowing the exact location of the septic
tank, and that I supply him with a letter from the
manufacturer to see if the City would approve that
manufacturer of the tank.
Those are some of the things that I see that
I was required to do. And on the Code violations, I've
seen numerous concrete repairs and concrete bearing points
that were not met according to the minimum standards of
UBC.
MAYOR STOUT: Concrete points?
MR. GROSSEL: Bearing points which mean I've seen
exterior walls being hung over the exterior slabs more
than two inches and the developer dry packing those.
MAYOR STOUT: Dry packing?
MR. GROSSEL: Which means that they're adding on to
the slab without -- that's correct.
Now, a lot of those things I can -- you know,
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the inspector doesn't have three hours to inspect one
house for each individual inspection. So he mares a
general overview. But there are some things that are
maybe being rushed through that maybe need to be looked at
a little bit more thoroughly.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: How could you tell that
situation, if it had been dry packed?
MR. GROSSEL: Well, it happens to be just the units
right across the street and I live on the corner.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I'm sorry. How could that
be shown after it's been done? Is there a method to
either check or --
MR. GROSSEL: Well, I think that basically --
probably where the situation would be caught is either in
framing inspection or during the exterior lath inspection.
This would be quite visible.
MAYOR STOUT: Just a second.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: On that packing on Lot 12, I
am a new homeowner. On Lot 12 they have done that.
MAYOR STOUT: Lot 12, across the street?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Nordic. I don't know what
the street number is. I believe it's Copper Mountain.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I guess what I'm getting at
is: Since you are in construction, is there a method that
will reveal that that has been done to the wooding areas?
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MR. GROSSEL: Sure.
MR. GLASS: For example, there was a two-inch gap
between the frame and foundation. They've came back and
poured cement down between the frame and foundation and
smoothed it out, which is more than noticeable.
MAYOR STOUT: What's your name, by the way?
MR. GLASS: Dwayne Glass.
MAYOR STOUT: Okay.
MR. GROSSEL: I think one of the points I wanted to
bring out: Basically -- as Kim tried to bring up, is that
at the very beginning I think the City, the Planning
Department, the Engineer Department, and all the
departments had a good knowledge of what was going on in
The Woods. And as the City grew it kind of, you know,
things got busy and we kind of went on our way and it
wasn't looked at as closely.
The problem with it is: Is that, I feel, if
the inspections aren't consistent in the requirements that
were placed upon me -- and I know Jim, I spoke to him last
night -- Scott asked him to bring something in writing
from First Fed. Mine was just bringing in a signed set of
plans. And as you know, we went through this with the
tree -cutting ordinance with Scott Murphy and yourself and
myself.
And I would like to comment that Mr. Hockum
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was brought before a design review committee on a
single-family residence at that time. And there was a
statement made earlier that he was not. And it's not
generally -- planned, but I think at that time it was a
City standpoint to stop his development, which I agree
with that was the policy at that time maybe. It's not
now, but at that time it was.
MR. GLASS: Unfortunately for us, a jury didn't
believe us.
MR. GROSSEL: I was right there. I took all the
heat from him every day. But that's why I'm really
concerned, is that a neighbor right next door to me
supplied a plan to the -- department for a tree removal
permit. We met with Dan Coleman and we were told: Hey,
they're not even going to get a permit until they even go
before the Planning Commission. That never happened.
I got a call from the Assistant Planner
saying: We've given them a permit. They never ceased
work the whole time this thing was going on, never.
MAYOR STOUT: Which house was this one?
MR. GROSSEL: This is the house right adjacent to
me, the Schrews.
And the other concern we had during that
whole incident was that he was not a licensed contractor.
So I called to find out if it's an owner -builder and
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they're pulling a permit by owner -builder, what are the
City requirements for insurance? That when the -homeowner
is doing an improvement that requires a permit and it's
knowledgeable by the Building Department that they're
hiring people by the hour, what is the requirements from
the City, if there is any, for insurance to be on file?
The statement I had made to me that there was
no insurance requirements. I want to refer to your little
handout here. On Page 5, Item B it say: "If you intend
to hire workmen on an hourly basis, you are required by
law to provide Workmen's Compensation insurance and your
insurance company just provide a certificate of such
insurance directly to the City." That's another
inconsistency that I see that's not being handled.
That's some of the things that I feel are not
being followed through on. And I know some of the other
homeowners have some concerns about that, also.
MAYOR STOUT: Okay.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: What do you think would
resolve the problems? Or what would take care of these
big gaping holes that you're seeing in the process?
MR. GROSSEL: Well, I'm sure all the inspectors and
the engineers who go out in the field are overworked with
more inspections than they can take care of.
MAYOR STOUT: Part of the problem is too: Some of
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the inspectors can trust certain builders. If they are
building 10 houses, they can look at a couple of them and
they're pretty sure that the others are okay. Some
builders you have to look at every single detail.
MR. GROSSEL: Then at that point I think that the
field inspector has to make the determination: Is this
guy building according to: number one, approved plans,
conditions of approval, and everything that was placed
upon that development during those inspections. And if
this happens, you know, more than one or two times and
they're not corrected -- and I know we use -- I work for a
developer who just went through this in the City of
Fontana. I'm sure you're fully aware of that, what's
going on there. We picked up a job and a year later and
$2 million later, we fixed it. And I've been to many of
the council meetings where there were hundreds of people
standing there with homeowner complaints. And the same
thing is happening here.
And it's happening again in Fontana. After
watching the paper, it's happening again. It's the same
developer and they're having the same problems.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: And you're saying that these
are problems which should be caught at the time that the
building is being done?
MR. GROSSEL: That's correct.
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UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: They aren't just problems
that crop up after the people move in?
MR. GROSSEL: No. Basically any inspector, he
doesn't have -- he probably has 15 minutes, if that, to
make a general inspection on each individual item. So if
he comes at the first time and feels comfortable with each
one of the plans or whatever -- they're being called off
or whether it be underground or septic tanks or concrete
or framing or whatever it is, an inspector gets a good
feel for the project and knows whether the developer is
completing things according to plan. And that's the only
way to control it. The inspectors are basically the last
person who can say yea or nay.
I can see the inconsistencies. I know -- I
was thoroughly upset at the time I was building my unit.
I worked for a developer up in Upland. We built hundreds
of units in Alta Loma and Rancho Cucamonga and I had
never, ever seen the attitude of a field inspector. But I
could not get a response at that time. I wanted to get a
final inspection also. And when I was asked to pay a fee
for $20 for reinspection and I went to see Mr. Schroeder
at that time, there was no alternative; pay the $20 and
keep right on going. Otherwise my next inspection
wouldn't have happened. So that's part of the problem on
the other side from the developer's standpoint or a
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single-family homeowner who's trying to build his own
house.
The other thing I wanted to bring up was code
enforcement. Brad and I had a conversation a few weeks
ago about some conditions, I believe, along Hermosa Avenue
that I felt were very unsafe that Nordic Development has
left open for several weeks. I checked on the way down
here again tonight, Brad. The few delineators and tape
that they put up two weeks ago have been knocked down and
it's still sitting the same way. The problem I have with
that is: If Code Enforcement knows it is an unsafe
condition, periodically they should go back and check to
see if it is being remedied. There has been an open
trench in a bridal trail on Hermosa Avenue which is a
pathway for foot traffic, for six weeks that I know of.
I have called Code Enforcement several times
due to the fact that the bus stop -- the children's bus
stop for grade school, high school is right in front of my
house, actually on the side of it.
I was successful, and my wife was last year
to -- curb standard -- Nordic Development just didn't
acknowledge the red curbs. I mean, I went to the
construction trailer several times; I called the
Sheriff's Department. And when I went over to the
Sheriff's Department when we had the meeting -- there are
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signs posted No Parking. They have been there for three
years. Every street has them. We've brought it -up several
times on while during -- when even single-family homes
that are being built by individual people, if their
contractors are making it very difficult for us to get to
work or get out of that development. There's only two
streets coming in and out of there. Why can't the
police department do something about ticketing these
people.
And I've experienced it with my neighbors.
And the police department came out several times and said:
Well, you'll have to put up with it.
I believe if our safety -- our safety should
be the number one concern. I know when I built my house
that I had to consider the existing neighbors and the
safety of the people, not to say: You have to put up with
it.
And we voiced that to the police captain and
he agreed that they would start coming out and ticketing.
And my concern is the school year is starting. Nordic is
a very shoddy developer. I would stand nose -to -nose with
them and tell them that, just by looking at what he's
doing. And we're concerned that the school bus now comes
up Hermosa on that very narrow strip. There are some
times I can't even go to work in the morning because of
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trucks there with no flag people, no control, no traffic
control by the developer or their subcontractorg. And if
it continues, sooner or later something is going to
happen. And I don't think we should wait for that.
I think the City agency should take it in hand and say:
Look, as far as I know, right at this point Hermosa Avenue
is a dedicated street. It is maintained by our
taxpayers' dollars. And I'm sure there are restrictions
upon Nordic's -- both tracts -- to replace or repair a
certain portion of those streets. But until that time,
our taxpayers' dollars are maintaining it. And we should
get the services for our taxpayers' dollars, which means a
safe condition to drive on.
If it means that Nordic has to make another
entrance to the tract, that's what they're going to have
to do. But I can tell you: Everytime I go by there and
there is a truck blocking the road, I call the Sheriff's
Department and I'm sure a lot of the other homeowners do,
and I'm sure they're tired of hearing from us. And I'm
sure, you know, Code Enforcement is tired of hearing from
me. But I'm going to call them everytime that I see a
problem. And that's what our -- I'm paying my taxes for.
MAYOR STOUT: What are these trucks primarily
doing?
MR. GROSSEL: They're delivering --
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MR. MARINO: Delivering stuff?
MR. GROSSEL: We've had several instanceig where I
have called the Sheriff's Department because trucks of
Nordic have thoroughly blocked the road and you can't get
through.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Where can they go to? I
mean, if they're delivering pieces of housing
construction, where are they supposed to go to deliver it?
Are they supposed to park on Hermosa or whatever it is?
For instance, if they're carrying a bath tub
to each unit that they're developing -- I'm just trying to
imagine this -- is that what they're supposed to do?
MR. GROSSEL: Well, they have existing streets in
their development. During the construction of the
northerly tract, it's more convenient for their
contractors to unload on Hermosa Avenue, which is a
City -maintained street. Which, number one, there was
traffic on it over the limit or the street can handle.
Number two, is that they could have pulled
into their development to unload their material. But
because the way they do their development, it made it
difficult for the contractor. And basically the
contractor is in business to make money. He's going to do
it the quickest way possible. So that the gentleman that
comes out there to unload the material is going to take it
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off as fast as he can take it off, either piecework or
whatever it might be. That gentleman unloading -that
material doesn't know what he's doing to the rest of the
community. I think it's up to Nordic to have adequate
supervision out there to handle that.
MAYOR STOUT: I have a question I want to ask, too.
The way the tract, if I recall correctly, was developed,
they just didn't do it in phases like the bottom, the
middle, the top or something like that, didn't they
disburse some of the units throughout it?
MR. GROSSEL: The northerly section of that tract
is exactly west of my house. It looks to me like they --
one street at a time. And that was the question I came up
with and asked a few people how they were being able to
get occupancy on each individual street that way because
I've seen a lot of repairs going on in the city of
right-of-ways, driveway approaches being torn out while
people were moving in.
And getting back to when I did my driveway
approach: The Engineering Department specifically told
me, if I did not have delinears in the city --
right-of-way, they would not give me an inspection for my
approach. And here we're right across the street -- I
mean, to try to impose those requirements on even one
house, we have to impose them all the way across the
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board.
I experienced the same thing with the Schrews
and -- and I called the Engineering Department to verify
that they had an inspection prior to placing the concrete.
I never received a return call, never.
I have never received a return call from
Code Enforcement when I've called them to say "I've been
out there, look at the problem and here's what our
intentions are to resolve it." I'm sure they're just
tired of hearing from me, number one.
Something is going to have to be done or I
can see that this stuff that is happening out in the field
is going to turn into another Fontana. We're going to be
in the same boat. We're going to have 200 homeowners
standing here. That's my opinion. You know, I've seen
it.
MAYOR STOUT: In your opinion could we -- I don't
know if this is practical or not -- could we keep them
completely off of Hermosa as far as deliveries? There's
no need for them to put materials on Hermosa anyway.
MR. GROSSEL: There's no reason why they can't
drive in to their project. But it takes supervision from
Nordic to do that.
MAYOR STOUT: I think they've probably demonstrated
they're not very good at doing that.
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MR. GROSSEL: So --
MAYOR STOUT: Can we condition it to keep them off
of Hermosa?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: It is a condition; isn't it?
MR. GROSSEL: Well, I think your one out might be
that maybe the equipment they're putting on the street
that's not designed for that load, could be one out.
MAYOR STOUT: It's like you said, that's a public
thoroughfare. I can't recall but there might be one or
two houses, something like that, that even remotely front
on Hermosa. The others are on the side streets to the
south.
MR. GROSSEL: The developer right now, they're in
the process of finishing their streets in there. They can
drive in.
MAYOR STOUT: Right. And towards the north -- I
can't recall -- but it seems to me there might have been a
couple of houses or something --
MR. GROSSEL: There are four houses at the very
northerly end of Hermosa that face Hermosa. Now would be
a good time for some of the agencies to go out -- if
they're concerned about code violations -- and maybe look
at their last four units. They can look at them.
Thank you.
MR. GLASS: Dwayne Glass again, Mr. Mayor.
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I have Lot 12 in Nordic Woods. I went to the walk-through
today with -- I guess his name is Greg. We had -60 items
that was wrong with the house between warped walls --
MAYOR STOUT: Are these the houses on the west or
the east?
MR. GLASS: That would be the west side. I have a
house on the east side, too. Then they have poured
concrete between the framing and the foundation. They
have not found the outlet for the septic tank. They've
been digging for a week. We have four -foot holes all the
way around in front of the window in the driveway.
MAYOR STOUT: Are they sure there's one there?
MR. GLASS: When I asked him that he says: There's
got to be.
I asked him: Then where's the outlet?
He looks over at the man and he goes: Maybe
it's over there.
I said: Well, what are you going to do with
it?
He goes: Well, we'll just have to tear it up
and see if we can find it.
Then we have like, warped walls, tack tile.
You know, the tile on the roof, he says: Well, this is
the way it's supposed to be. I climbed up there and
showed him. I picked up a piece. It was not nailed down.
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You got wood frames going through, you know,
it's just -- I'm not even mentioning the paint, -the dents,
the chips which comes with the house, but they've gone
beyond the point.
Just like I live on Stratton Court now.
They've taken -- and I've had to take and put $2,000 in
grading that they did not do the grading that the City
said they had to do. I had to do it myself. I've called
the City and asked them what they're going to do about it.
They've never gotten back with me.
So in order for me to get the water runned
off, I had to do it myself because I want to put it up for
sale, make a profit, go to another house, and make a
profit off of that.
I understand the gentleman's problem over
here. But if you go to a store and buy a bicycle, you
want both tires with the bicycle, not -- you know, not
saying: Yeah, we're going to make a good profit, there's
no doubt about it.
But do the job right the first time. Don't
have us keep coming back. Have your inspectors get out
there and say: Hey, this isn't right, the leach lines
ain't right. You're not supposed to hand drill them;
you're supposed to put them in correctly.
The wall is warped by three inches. I have
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been on the other side of the room and seen it. Don't
have me come in there and say: What's this problem? The
wall is supposed to be straight. The floor is supposed to
be straight.
Sir, if you'd like to come out to Lot 12,
I'll show you these things.
Don't get me wrong, Nordic has improved
because of the pressure you have applied upon them. but
they're only doing this so they can final some other
house. If you let up on them, they would go back exactly
the way they were and we will get nothing done and things
will come apart.
That's all I have to say. Thank you.
MRS. BENNETT: Mrs. Phyllis Bennett at
5167 Silver Mountain Way. My husband is George. I have a
different problem. We have a vacant lot that sits east of
us and that comprises about, oh, three -plus acres. The
lot is overgrown with weeds for the past, oh, three years,
since we've been living there, and nobody has ever come
and cut it down.
My neighbor, Linda Roberts, called the City
about a month or maybe almost two months ago requesting:
What about the weeds there? We have to have weed
abatement. We get notices.
So what they told her was: Well, we've
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notified the owner and if he doesn't do it we're going
to come in and we're going to bring our own equipment in
and we're going to cut it down. Like I said, this is
two months ago, and they told her it would be done within
two weeks.
Now, that's a fire hazard. Now, one of the
solutions was: Well, if they don't come in with their own
equipment, we're going to have controlled burning, which I
think would be wrong because of the fact our trees are all
the eucalyptus. They can explode with intense heat.
MAYOR STOUT: Wait a minute. Somebody said
"controlled burning within the woods"?
MRS. BENNETT: Yes. This is what they told her.
MAYOR STOUT: Who are they talking to anyway?
MRS. BENNETT: I don't know who she called. She
called up somebody here in the City and they said: Well,
if we can't get our equipment in there, we'll have
controlled burning. This is what we were told. And she
said fine. I don't know -- that new guy we hired. This
is what it was.
MAYOR STOUT: Would it be a surprise to you that we
don't do weed abatement in the City?
MRS. BENNETT: Well how can we get notices if our
weeds --
MAYOR STOUT: The County of San Bernardino does it.
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UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I can reasonably well assure
you that we don't go into controlled burns on residential
areas.
MRS. BENNETT: Well that was what she was told.
This is what she was told. She called the City up. The
Water Company is adjacent to this field. Their weeds
aren't cut either and that's City property; isn't it?
MAYOR STOUT: No.
MRS. BENNETT: Their weeds aren't cut either.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: It's the Cucamonga Water
District. They have their own governing agency.
MRS. BENNETT: Why don't they cut their weeds then?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: You need to ask them. Call
them.
MRS. BENNETT: Because like I say, we've got weeds
in back of us and the owner has supposedly been notified
and yet nothing is done. That's it. Thank you.
MR. BENNETT: I apologize, Mr. Mayor. I did try
that. I would have tried harder, but we did not receive
any phone calls. We have an answering machine. There
were no phone calls. And the letter I received from
Mr. Martin, I did duplicate that also and pass it around
to the various homeowners.
My problem is --
MAYOR STOUT: I didn't want to make a big issue of
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that, but most of the people here on the council are very
interested, especially items like this in going and
looking at them and seeing what they're all about. I'd
like to do that if I can. I'm going to make a list of
stuff. I'm going to go out and look at as much of this
stuff as I possibly can.
MR. BENNETT: Well, I think it's a good idea.
MAYOR STOUT: But it kind of delays things a little
bit.
MR. BENNETT: In fact, I will bring up an example a
little later on.
MAYOR STOUT: I hope it's not --
MR. BENNETT: The department heads should go out
there instead of depending on their subordinates.
MAYOR STOUT: Hope it's not a cesspool tank or
anything like that.
MR. BENNETT: Mine is the flood conditions behind
our property. Water runs down Mayberry for approximately
three blocks. It's a very steep hill -- or two blocks.
Prior to coming -- entering the street from Mayberry the
street from Mayberry it comes down from the mountains. It
goes west -- or north at Beaver Creek on a small -- oh, I
would say not more than eight -inch drainage ditch. It
goes adjacent to the property and it goes down
Beaver Creek, then goes down Silver Mountain Way, part of
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it. The other part is diverted to our horse trail, goes
down the horse trail, goes over the vacant lot next to us,
floods out our berm, goes through our property, floods out
our neighbor and two neighbors below that.
We did complain. The City did come out and
put a curb in, so forth. And it still did not resolve it.
Where the water comes through the people's home at
Beaver Creek he's put rocks and so forth to try to prevent
the erosion when it rains. We have dumped several loads
of dirt in the property above us to try and dam the water
that won't come through, and all my neighbor gets is about
four inches of dirt all over the patio.
MAYOR STOUT: Is Beaver Creek one of the streets up
there?
MR. BENNETT: Yes.
MAYOR STOUT: Because when I last saw it it was
like Street A, Street B, and Street C and so forth.
Mayberry, is that the common street?
MR. BENNETT: Yes. I think -- in our horse trail,
one of the reasons it goes through that vacant lot and it
comes down through our property is because we don't have
that gutter, rain gutter in our horse trail. And I think
it was addressed in your minutes there. If it was on our
side of the horse trail, it would prevent that water from
overflowing into our property or the property up above and
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so forth. It would be a big factor in correcting the
problem.
I would suggest that this be reevaluated.
Now, after this was fixed a letter was written to the
City. I think Mr. Huggins will bring it up -- on
December 11th, 1988. And we still haven't got any
response from that.
I would suggest that this be reevaluated, the
volume of water and the velocity of water when it comes
down and better system be devised.
I'd like to talk -- was there any questions
on that?
MAYOR STOUT: This primarily happened from nuisance
water? Is this from rain water?
MR. BENNETT: Rain water. That water comes down
Silver Creek so much and so fast that if that street isn't
clean -- and even if it is clean -- it would go over our
curb and wash over our dirt and our bank. That's just how
the volume of it is.
MAYOR STOUT: Okay.
MR. BENNETT: Street sweeping. I've fought
continously with the City over that. So finally in
January of '88 they considered the two weeks -- or
biweekly sweeping the street. And they did pretty good
for a while. Then we didn't have any for about three
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months. Then we complained again about last September and
we started getting a little bit more.
Then the individual came through, and he was
going so fast he just scattered the dirt. And he only
knew one side of the street. And if there was any debris
in the street he would go around it and leave it, actually
leave it, rocks and so forth. So the streets really
looked bad. And when that debris builds up it just causes
more of a problem. It just continuously builds and it
becomes a real problem.
We called to complain. And now, I think the
last six weeks to two months we've complained he does slow
down. He does know there's two sides to a street and he
does hit the streets. And we have had good street
sweeping. But, again, I think when this stuff comes up,
the department head should go out and take a look at the
problem. And I think you'll see one of the problems that
I'm talking about on Archibald, north of Hillside on the
west side of the street. They haven't swept that for
sometime. The debris is there and the water goes out in
the middle of the street and it just continues to build
up.
Trees. The City is rather restrictive, I
understand, on trees. I would like to make a suggestion.
We have to top our trees. I think that's the only way
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we're going to prevent all the damage and the windstorms.
And we would like some help from the City. I know you've
got deep pockets, but we're not really asking for that.
Maybe a contractor to help us, maybe a better price will
top those trees in the community so we aren't going to
have them blown down and roof damage and streets blocked
and so forth.
Another thing on the trees is they're so much
of a fire hazard. That we're only aware of because some
fireman moved out there. And I wasn't aware that they
were really a fire hazard. I guess they just explode.
So some of the houses have the trees rather close. I
think it would be appropriate that the City Planners would
look at some alternate trees if we wanted to take some of
those out. I think the trees are beautiful and we want
trees. And we want to replace them. But I think some of
those, it might be necessary to replace. Because he
states that when they're close to the house they will
explode because of the heat that goes ahead of the fire
and a vapor comes off of these trees and they just
explode. It would melt those aluminum windows and the
glass, and the fire is right inside the house in no time.
So we're going to have a meeting on it, the
Community, that we can maybe trim them and so forth to
prevent them. I never thought we could have a fire storm
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up there because of the risks and so forth, and he said
we're mistaken.
I'd like to talk about the Sheriff's
Department. When I mentioned the department heads --
after the July 5th meeting Captain Gilmore spoke and said
that he would like to know more about what the problems
were. And he was invited to a community meeting. He came
up with his staff. He stated -- hit me with both barrels.
I don't care. We'll see what we can do. And the
Community hit him. He was very good. He explained the
response time, priority calls. There was a lot of
misnomers that was cleared up. It was agreed, I think in
your report, community patrol, maybe a neighborhood watch.
As a result of that meeting Captain Gilmore
mentioned later on that it was very obvious there was a
problem with communications, not only from the
Sheriff's Department -- the Community, but from the
Sheriff's Department to the Community. And therefore, he
was going to set up a communications system throughout the
community where you'd have community meetings to talk
about the same problems we had with other citizens.
He said he learned a lot from that meeting
and he felt it necessary to let the citizens know what
they're doing.
So I did want to mention that one department
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head did -- he didn't alibi. He wasn't defensive. He
told it the way it was and his staff. And he came out and
found out what the problem is. I think on a lot of these
items that you're going to find out after I've finished
that maybe the department heads aren't getting the correct
information that they're reporting.
Thank you.
MAYOR STOUT: The next --
MR. MOZER: My name is Ted Mozer. My wife and I
bought like 25 up in Nordic, too, and I'm sure you're not
interested in another horror story, but I guess I'm here
to try to lay my little bit on the Council also. We heard
this guy from -- this gentleman from Woodridge talking
about being ready to move in in two months and getting
ready to lease back his house and he's losing a place to
stay. We're one of the four nonentities at the top of
Hermosa that you referred to. We're 5498. We entered
into a contract with Nordic II in February. And at that
time Woodridge -- I believe were -- whatever, was cement
pads. They hadn't even started the houses yet.
Our house was in a framing stage. And at that time we had
a May 5th move -in date.
In order for us to enter into an agreement
with Nordic, we had to have our house not only on the
market but in escrow and by March and cleared escrow by
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May 5th. I lived in Laverne at the time so I gave a
90 -day escrow, which would move my escrow to Jurre. I'm
expounding here a little bit.
But Harry Cato called me and he said, "You're
violating your contract. You cannot do that. You have to
close by May 5th." I said, "Harry, let's play with it a
little bit and see what happens." I didn't want any
contingency; I wanted to sell my house. My house sold in
June. I've been renting since June. I'm in the process
of having to move again because when we took the temporary
housing we were told at that time we had a two-month
move -in date, so we took two months' temporary housing.
Now that time is up.
I went up to see Greg, the supervisor, this
morning to ask: What's happening with my house up at
5498 Hermosa which is still in its framing stage? He
said, "Rancho Cucamonga has put another two-week hold --
another two-week -- more formal inspections." I said,
"That's not going to work." Because for the last 10
weeks every week I would go up there and Lauren would say,
"Boy, you're going to see a big difference in the next two
weeks." And I'd go up there and same old thing.
In 10 weeks they enclosed one closet, that's
all, framed one closet. And in that 10 -week period they
put a few tiles on the roof, framed one closet and dug a
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hole from the street to the house. And I go down and I
see Jerry this morning and he said, "Yes, we did do a
slow -down because we need to get these other things and
it's the only way we can get the contractor to work."
And I have no qualms with all these people sitting here
with all their problems. I have no qualms with this
gentleman over here wanting to move in in two months. And
I have no qualms with the fact that the contractor should
be doing his job.
But the qualms I have and the question I have
for the City Council tonight is: Why in the hell are you
letting these people jack us around all this time? Why
are you letting them continue to develop over on Sapphire?
Why are you allowing them to continue to take the people's
money over on another tract? I'd like to know where the
City Council comes from in not asking these people,
"Before you take another deposit, before you take another
soul out here to Rancho Cucamonga to mislead them for the
next year -and -a -half, go up and finish what you've got
wrong first"? Okay?
Now, who in here would like to ask me a
question?
MAYOR STOUT: Mr. Mozer, the question you've talked
about here is not new to this City.
25 1 MR. MOZER: I know that.
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MAYOR STOUT: We've had this same situation come up
here, it was, what, three months ago, a different
developer of a similar type and we talked about that.
And what is our legal authority? Can we keep someone from
building and can we deny them, you know, some separate
total, separate entity?
We were told by our City Attorney at that
time -- I doubt if the answer is going to be different
tonight -- that we did not have the right to do that.
MR. MOZER: Well, could I ask the Mayor why you
would have to deny an arcade a permit because it might
create a delinquency to the kids from 3:00 to 5:00, but
yet you have people spending $300,000 for a house and you
don't have any control over that developer whether he's
going to defraud those people out of their money?
MAYOR STOUT: Well, "Defraud," you're talking about
criminal activity. That's a different --
MR. MOZER: New building codes.
MAYOR STOUT: If you start charging somebody with a
crime, you should -- that's something --
MR. MOZER: Well, okay. Strike the last remark.
I didn't mean to overstep the boundaries. I'm frustrated.
MAYOR STOUT: That's obvious.
MR. MOZER: So all I'm asking for is that the City
Planning Commission -- Planning and Safety is going to go
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up there and stop the construction on something -- I had
to go down today to get Jerry to say that he wodld release
the inspector to go up and and inspect my property so they
could get the framing inspection done. I've been waiting
10 weeks for that. That's been one excuse for 10 weeks.
I've been waiting for that framing inspection.
And Jerry, I went down today -- I sat and
talked to Jerry during his lunch hour, got him to agree to
do the framing inspection. I went back up. I got Greg to
agree to call Jerry, I don't know whether he did or not
because I haven't been back out there. That's half of my
day of my livelihood to get my house -- at least to be
agreed to be a framing inspection so they can go on with
the installation, go on with the drywall, go on with
building my house.
Now, I don't know that they will do that.
They'll find another excuse. But, I mean if this is the
thing that I have to put up with, I don't know when I
become an entity to the City. And right now that I was
told by Jerry Martin that I'm a nobody because the
contractor is the one that the City is dealing with.
And once I take title to the property, then
the City feels like I'm more of a problem because I'm now
a homeowner. Because right now I'm not, even though I am.
I'm legally, contractually obligated to the developer. It
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just doesn't seem like the developer is contractually
obligated to me. -
And there's got to be some kind of fair play
here -- sense of fair play. I'm not asking for any
special preference or special treatment of any kind. I
just want what I entered into a contract with. And I
think Rancho Cucamonga should have some kind -- more of a
clout or strong-arm position with the developer to be able
to make them perform on these things that --
MAYOR STOUT: Mr. Mozer, I want to ask you a
question. I want your honest answer to this. Do you
honestly believe that if we had an inspector sitting out
there 24 hours a day watching that tract that it would
have been done any faster?
MR. MOZER: No. But I honestly believe that if you
had told them -- I do believe. I understand they don't
pay their subs. But I do believe that if you told them
"You can't build on Sapphire. You can't have any more
building permits in the Rancho Cucamonga -- City of Rancho
Cucamonga until you straighten up your act and get these
people that you have committed to straightened out, not
only Nordic and Nordic II and The Woods and everybody else
that they've sold to --
MAYOR STOUT: If we had the power to do that, I
think that's a great suggestion.
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UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: What did we do with K&B?
They were having problems that I remember. At least we
were pounding our chests saying that we were going to do
something. What was it that we did that made them
acceptable in the City?
MAYOR STOUT: They're not acceptable. Their
streets still aren't --
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I really have to say to the
Council -- and this isn't necessarily in defense of the
Staff -- I have never -- in the 19 years of this I have
never seen the Building Department pay this much attention
to houses that are occupied and problems like you've heard
today. And I wasn't kidding when I told the other
gentleman -- I mean, we've got the manpower generation
working on this problem that's almost unbelievable. And
the pressure and the talks and everything has occurred.
And you're right, we're kind of helpless to make these
things happen.
We can't make a guy ill. If he comes in and
he goes through the planning processes in another tract,
we can't relate the two except to say that we only have so
many people to go around and we're going to go slower.
I'm not sure that he doesn't want to go slower so he blows
some people out and sells that same house to someone else
for more money. We've heard all these allegations. They
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may well all be true.
We've gone so far as to contract t1Te attorney
general's office. I talked to Jim Martin about their --
the Consumer Fraud section. And they have a feeling that
some crimes may be being committed by the developer. If
the people would come forward and file the Complaints with
the District Attorney or en masse go down to the
Attorney General and say "There is consumer fraud," or go
to the Department of Real Estate -- I mean, virtually
every avenue the City could pursue to generate a reaction
has been and is being pursued.
And you get some action and then, you know,
if you turn away, the feeling is they're going to slow
down again.
But, no, you're right about this. We don't
have -- I can't tell you "Here it is. We can go after
these guys and stop them, you know, from doing something
different."
It's not a question of contractor's license.
Developers don't need that. You know, developers don't
need a license. All they need to do is to get a white
paper from, you know, the Department of Real Estate, tract
by tract. And they don't relate them. There's no license
to lift.
25 1 So we feel as helpless as the people do. And
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I really can't think of an avenue that either Jerry Graham
or Jim Martin hasn't suggested. And we have pursued them
and we will continue to pursue them. But, I mean, we
don't want to lay out false hope either.
MR. MOZER: So you're saying our recourse is no
recourse?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Well, you know, I can't tell
you to walk away.
MR. MOZER: I'm not going to.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: There's a gentleman I was
talking to out there who's bought four or five houses in
that tract. And the developer is virtually trying to blow
him off the transaction because he knows he sold cheap and
he can sell it for more halfway through construction.
That's pretty dispicable, and I'd like to tell you, we
don't have a remedy.
Of course, the homeowners have a remedy to
get these things corrected. There is a general theory of
law, a breach of warranty on real estate sales that you
can pursue against this guy.
Unfortunately, the question after you do
that, your expense and your lawyers, what is left after
you pursue them? Is there any money in there? I mean,
they probably don't have any money sitting in that
corporate entity that's going to help anybody.
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MR. MOZER: When they come to do work -- to do
development in Rancho Cucamonga do they have performance
bonds? Are they required --
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: There's performance bonds
from Public Works, but we don't require them to put up a
performance bond to complete your house.
MR. MOZER: Or a tract?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: We don't require anyone to
put up a performance bond to complete a project work of
construction that the City isn't going to end up owning or
maintaining. That's the problem. The problem is they're
taking deposits at the beginning of the escrows and
they're very slow, and like you say, they're
shoe -stringing these developments and they get down the
line and the house is worth a lot more than they sold them
for and they don't want to complete the transaction, is
what sounds an awful lot like that's what's going on
systematically.
But the City can't solve these problems
except to say that, "Sure, we can put the pressure on them
to correct things like driveways and things where you can
see they didn't do something per Code." But, you know,
our leverage is what you see. The situation is what you
see. Our leverage has been applied and the result is what
you see, which is not satisfactory to the Council or to
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the citizens.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Is there any power in
consumer pressure? In other words, making the quality of
their product known?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: See, I don't know because
these houses are valuable. That escalate -- it's a
two -edge sword when you own houses in several tracts; it's
a two -edge sword.
MR. MOZER: Well, you know, it is getting late and
I don't want to take any more of your time. I would like
to say, though, that when you stop the inspections you're
stopping my house from being built. And when you do that,
my house is still in the rough -framing stages. It doesn't
have a scratch code; it doesn't have a color code; it
doesn't have anything. You can see right through it, as a
matter of fact.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Mr. Mozer, the point I was
trying to make earlier is: When you say we stop
inspections, it stops them from doing that, I don't think
that's true.
MR. MOZER: That may not be, but that's their
excuse for not doing it.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: That's what they're doing,
is they're using you.
MR. MOZER: That's why I took the day off and I
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went down and I got Jerry to say that he would release
inspection. I got Greg to say that he would carl Jerry
for the inspection. I said, "Now you don't have an
excuse. I'd like to see something start happening on my
house." Because I went down and got the inspector to say
he would inspect it. And once that happens, they have no
more --
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: You were right. They don't
have an excuse. But I still don't think they're going to
perform.
MR. MOZER: Well, they may not. And if they don't,
I guess I'll have to put my head between my legs --
MAYOR STOUT: I'm going to try a suggestion and
don't take this as a warranty that this is a remedy.
But when somebody sells you a house, you get into an
escrow and they represent a date of completion or an
estimate and not only don't they make it, they're not
going to make it, the facts show that they never intended
to make it, that they didn't have the intention of
performing, that is fraud.
And that fraud is committed not only by the
corporate entity but by the human being you dealt with.
If you start looking at a private remedy that way and you
start going after human beings personally with their
personal assets on the line, it might change their
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thinking. With the systematic stories we're hearing, I
would certainly consider a whole group of peoplLs involved
with these people in getting together with a private
attorney who would have a legitimate stake in this.
Because this sounds like there's something systematically
going on like they don't intend to complete on time, like
they're putting people in positions where they can blow
people out, put other people in for higher prices.
And that, if proven to be true, is fraud.
And it's not just the corporation who commits
the fraud; it's the human beings you dealt with. And if
they start thinking in those terms, they may start
thinking about performing. I would.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: It's been brought up about
Nordic, or whatever, continuing to develop another portion
of the city. Can the City require certain performance
bonds to be passed back to the City if performances --
MAYOR STOUT: One of the problems is I think you
have to think very carefully about requiring a performance
bond with completion periods and bonding companies
involved in private transactions where the construction
doesn't result in a public improvement. I would suggest
getting involved in that. Jerry and I kind of debate that
from time to time. But, you know -- however, when I --
MR. MOZER: This is a very novel situation,
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thinking. With the systematic stories we're hearing, I
would certainly consider a whole group of peoplLs involved
with these people in getting together with a private
attorney who would have a legitimate stake in this.
Because this sounds like there's something systematically
going on like they don't intend to complete on time, like
they're putting people in positions where they can blow
people out, put other people in for higher prices.
And that, if proven to be true, is fraud.
And it's not just the corporation who commits
the fraud; it's the human beings you dealt with. And if
they start thinking in those terms, they may start
thinking about performing. I would.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: It's been brought up about
Nordic, or whatever, continuing to develop another portion
of the city. Can the City require certain performance
bonds to be passed back to the City if performances --
MAYOR STOUT: One of the problems is I think you
have to think very carefully about requiring a performance
bond with completion periods and bonding companies
involved in private transactions where the construction
doesn't result in a public improvement. I would suggest
getting involved in that. Jerry and I kind of debate that
from time to time. But, you know -- however, when I --
MR. MOZER: This is a very novel situation,
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apparently.
MAYOR STOUT: Let me tell you, people are willing
to pay the cost of the bonds, plug that into the cost of
the houses, I think that would be a very interesting
legislative suggestion to suggest to the legislature as a
requirement of these companies.
At least through the subdivision process that
they have completion bonds, guaranteed performance on
construction when they get into escrow with these people.
I don't think the City can do it, but, I think -- you
know, when you hear stories like this, it's an interesting
suggestion for legislation.
COUNCILWOMAN WRIGHT: Within the past three years
we have taken some kind of action -- and I'd like to know
what it was -- that addressed the issue of quality in the
new housing. Specifically we were talking about
low -quality cabinetry and that kind of workmanship in the
units, and somehow there was some kind of direction that
we took that said that we were going to do something about
that. What was it?
MAYOR STOUT: Maybe Brad --
MR. BULLER: There was a project in Victoria and
what the Council directed us to do was meet with the
developer, which we did. And fortunately we had two very
cooperative developers. And they turned around
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180 degrees.
COUNCILWOMAN WRIGHT: So, it was just codperation
from the developer?
MR. BULLER: And they felt brimmage* before this
Council was very important. And they did not want to
disappoint this Council. And so they turned around and
started doing work that they were then proud of. They
acknoledged that the work that had been done to that date
was not acceptable.
COUNCILWOMAN WRIGHT: I think I know what you're
talking about. We were discussing goals and priorities
and we discussed because some of the developers were out
there selling the other parcels to other developers, we
would no longer have control over, say, the big developers
in town such as the William Lyon Company as subdividing
and they're selling to everybody, that as one of our
goals -- it was so stated as I remember in our goals that
we came up with two years ago -- that we would, in the
Planning Department and Engineering Department, have
consensus of the Council to go out there and demand the
quality from those developers. And I remember exactly
what Pam was talking about. And that was an action taken
by the City Council. But you had the consensus of the
Council to go out there and demand those things.
MS. WILDER: I think a solution -- I'm Jan Wilder.
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I live on Stratton Court. I think part of the solution is
at the time these homes were being built two -and -a -half
years ago, three years ago, the inspections should have
been -- followed the Code. We're not talking aesthetic
problems as Mr. Grant's planning -- planning staff -- his
staff memo mentioned.
We have got, from my home in particular,
three homes in our tract on the Nordic Woods on the east
side, we have an elevation where we step down from our
garage into our home. Those plans -- our roofs slant
because that elevation -- the architectural plans were not
changed to bring that up.
We had another one, Mr. Huggins, who just had
his roof, after two -and -a -half years of arguing and
fighting, his roof replaced because his roof was held up
by one two-by-four, a huge three -car garage roof.
I think a lot of the problems -- even
recently we've got septic tank and leach lines that are
put in not to Code and still have not been totally
corrected. And I think the problem isn't necessarily
going -- I mean that I believe until Nordic fixes it we
should continue not releasing permits, residency permits.
I know what these people went through because
we -- excuse me -- we get -- we have a couple back here,
they signed a house -- or they bought their home
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two -and -a -half years ago. They moved in eight weeks ago.
So they have waited two -and -a -half years to move into
their home.
I feel sorry for this other couple that were
here and they've waited a year. It's nothing compared to
what some of the people --
We moved into our home -- how we got a final
residency permit to move into our house is beyond me.
When we moved in we did not have a completed bathroom; we
did not have a dishwasher in our house; we did not have
utilities in our house. They came and installed them a
week later.
The Gudaras (phonetic) back here (indicating)
lived in their house for what, two weeks? They did not
have Edison utilities on the streets and they got
residency permits from the City, final on their house.
That is an iron mountain.
Now, the inconsistencies -- the daily
homes -- the funniest thing, the people were not allowed
to move into their houses until they had -- trails and the
curbs were fixed. And yet Nordic is letting these people
move in with not even utilities on their streets.
We have a house over on Iron Mountain. There
is a gas line going upstairs into their attic and it
connects to nothing. Where are our inspectors?
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We have complained and complained the whole
time our house was being built. We went up there almost
daily and complained about it. We were there. My husband
was right there when the framing inspector signed it off.
You know how he signed it off? He drove up the
cul-de-sac. Barry, the supervisor, walked out with a
clipboard and signed it.
Our framing is horrible. If anybody would
like to come to my house and look down my hallway and
watch it go out four inches, is more than welcome to come
to my home and visit. Or come to my home and see the
half-inch crack going across my foundation.
And these people that don't want to move
in -- or are anxious to move in, heaven forbid you get in
your homes and you have these problems. We're trying to
save a lot of people a lot of problems down the road.
COUNCILWOMAN WRIGHT: Excuse me. Is there the
woman, the resident here, who didn't have heat upstairs?
That's you? They let you move in without heat?
MS. WILDER: Yes.
Well, Mrs. Gudara right here, moved in for
two weeks with no utilities on her street at all.
And the other thing I want to say is -- on
Mr. Grant's Staff Report, is that the trails, the
community trails. I'm an active horseperson. We have
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horses on our property. We ride as often as we can. I
don't have a real problem with the majority of The Woods'
trails. I did until I started seeing the rest of the
city. Some of the other parts of the city, the western
part of Alta Loma, has some horrendous trails, horrible
trails. But there is a community trail, it's a City trail
that is on the west side of Hermosa through the New Woods
tract. It is a dangerous, hazardous trail.
I'm an experienced horseperson. I have
experienced trail horses, and I will not take them down
there anymore. There are -- they've put the fence up, the
white PVC fence; it looks very nice.
They have not removed trees; there is poison
oak in there; it has not been graded; it is very steep.
There are loose, major rocks down in there with leaves on
them. We've ridden in there and our horses have slipped
on them. We do not ride down there. It is very difficult
to walk on this City trail.
And yet, they are allowing people to move in
on the west side of Hermosa, the Nordic homes, without
that City trail being completed.
I think Mr. Huggins has some -- he's more
technical. He's in the construction business and some
other complaints of Nordic.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Mr. Mayor, I just want to
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comment that -- I want to point out the specific
situation. We get from time to time developers illegally
moving families in because of the pressure to get somebody
in. The City does not issue the -- whatever the term --
we only issue utility clearances.
Unless the utility clearance is issued, there
is no legal granting of occupancy. There's no occupancy
permit that is issued.
MS. WILDER: What can you do to a developer who's
doing that illegal stuff?
MR. MARKMAN: We're aware of the illegal move -in,
it is reported to us or we find it, that there's been an
illegal move -in, we inform the developer. We try to put
pressure on the person to move the family out.
However, the problem is, once the family
moves in, they begin seeing these kinds of problems, we
get this reversal situation where --
MS. WILDER: What kind of punitive action can we
take against the developer who is doing these kinds of
things?
MR. MARKMAN: We take action to remove the family;
but when that happens, we usually have a human kind of
situation where we have the family moved in already, how
can you kick the person out?
MS. WILDER: But that's not punitive against the
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developer though.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: No, because the actual
violator is the person who is occupying the building.
MS. WILDER: The family becomes the victim.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: The victim is the violator.
MS. WILDER: So isn't there any recourse for a
person taking that illegal action?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: It is, again, to hold --
occupancies or threaten other things that have to do with
future homes on those premises.
MR. MARK14AN: I'm going to say this again: The
problem is, if you take one lot and there is mistakes on
it, we tie it to inspections or holding people out of
other lots, we've got a problem with these other people
who want to move in. The connection isn't there.
The connection is, you know, we're just
spending all our time dealing with problems with this
developer. And I'm beginning to question whether they
want us to inspect these other homes. I'm not so sure
they're not serving one of their purposes, which is to get
people to fall out of escrow.
MS. WILDER: What are we doing about the stuff that
he's putting up on Sapphire? We've spent, what, three
hours on this one? When the people come in over on
Sapphire are we going to do the same thing because we have
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to let this guy get away with it? There's got to be
something we can do.
MR. GRANT: It's real hard -- well, it's
impossible -- I'll go this far. It's impossible for
people in the construction business not to be able to pull
stuff off on building inspectors, it's virtually
impossible. It's -- as the mayor said, if we had an
inspector out there on one house 24 hours a day, I don't
think he'd catch -- if these people intentionally are
cutting the corners, you're not going to catch it all.
The homeowners have a remedy, but it's a
remedy of seeking their own legal counsel. This thing is
starting to get so systematic in its nature, it's almost
sounding like not errors or like the funds, something like
an intentional scheme.
But I think if they got together with an
attorney as a group, they might be able to apply a lot
more pressure than coming to the Council trying to get the
Council to direct Staff to do for them what it's doing,
which I have no idea what it would be.
I'm sure most of their -- I'm sure all of
their specific complaints are valid. Jerry tells me they
are, so I have no reason to believe they aren't.
I can tell you they have problems in Anaheim,
too, but they're --
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MR. HUGGINS: My name is John Huggins. I live at
10203 Beaver Creek Court. And I disagree with the guy
here. What I'm seeing in my house -- I have pictures
here, if you'd like to see them. They're the architect's
drawings in direct code violation. That's Nordic's own
architect that made up that letter and drawing. This pipe
I brought in, the City inspected and passed 11 of them.
One of the homeowners came to me. I'm a
general engineering contractor licensed with the State of
California. 29 houses they put this kind of pipe in for
leaching systems, and the City passed 11 of them. I
caught it. Here's the pipe it's supposed to have.
Another thing they're doing wrong, the City
passed 29 houses. Here's the environmental --
recommendations for the water service crossing leach
lines. I brought that up to the inspector. He said he
never heard of such a thing. But they made me do 48 of
them just across the road. I had to do it this way.
The problem is with the Building Department,
not with Nordic. The Building Department is not
inspecting Nordic's work. It's -- I put in 14 septic
tanks up at The Woods up there where I live at. I put in
my own septic tank. The building inspector signed them
off. I put them in on the weekends. He signed them off
on Monday morning. That's the kind of inspectors you've
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got in the City. I will not bid another job in the City
of Rancho Cucamonga if that's the kind of inspection we're
going to have. The problem is with the Building
Department.
The only way I got my house fixed was to put
the pressure on the Building Department. And to top it
all off, the City made me buy from it to get the repairs
done. I had to buy a new house and then I had to buy from
them to get the repairs done.
MAYOR STOUT: Mr. Huggins, are all these pictures
from your house?
MR. HUGGINS: They're all from my house.
CITY COUNCILWOMAN: Isn't this the third time you
had to do the roof?
MR. HUGGINS: The roof fell off five times.
It cost me $4,000 once to put it back on myself. They
wouldn't come back.
CITY COUNCILWOMAN: Has anyone pursued any other
help besides -- I'm not trying to, you know, say that you
should or that it's not our interest, but I just am
wondering with all this going on if anyone else pursued
outside help in enforcing what's going on with Nordic.
Has anybody --
MR. HUGGINS: There again, most of the problems --
some of them with the septic tanks that was put in by a
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contractor that was working on the City of California's
contractor's license, has no City business license, and I
brought it to the attention of Mr. Schroeder. He said,
"We have no jurisdiction over it." I have a City license.
Why can't somebody else come into the city without a City
license?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I'm sure the City requires
before any inspection is done, that the developers have on
file all the contractors. I'm sure it's the City's policy
so that the City knows that all the contractors on site
have Workmen's Comp insurance -- supplies the City with a
list of contractors that are working on site.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Jack, I'm not familiar with
the building industry.
MR. LYON: That's not correct. Maybe Mr. Grant can
comment on some of the statements that were made.
MR. GRANT: It's correct that if somebody's
doing -- or if somebody is doing a public works contract
with the City, the law requires the City to make sure they
are licensed and they have Workers' Comp. When it comes
to private works of construction, that is generally not
the case. And as far as business license is considered,
the gentleman is absolutely right. They owe us money.
The business license ordinance is a revenue-producing
ordinance. And somebody who does work in the City should
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get a license. But we do not regulate by virtue of the
issuance of that license. That is, we don't make a
judgment as to whether they should pick it up or not based
on whether they're State licensed under private work.
They owe us money. The gentleman is correct.
If he pays it, they ought to pay.
MR. HUGGINS: Can they work in the street without a
State contractor's license?
MR. GRANT: They cannot work in the street on a
City job, on a public works job, I'll say that again,
unless they're licensed. Because we have them under a
public works contract and they have to show us
Workers' Comp cerficates; that's absolutely correct.
When they're building a private house, we don't police
that that way. I don't know of any city that does.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: On all these construcion
sites in the city of Rancho Cucamonga there could be
hundreds, literally hundreds of subcontractors that are
working out there without State licenses and the City is
not collecting revenues for that?
MR. GRANT: Well, I don't know if that's the case,
but I'm sure some slip through. I think a lot of them pay
their City licenses.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: But the City doesn't require
it?
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MR. GRANT: Of course the City requires it, but
some people come into the city of Rancho Cucamonga and do
the work and don't take out a business license, as is true
in every city. I think most of them properly do pay, just
as Huggins has; but yeah, there's some of them --
Well, there's a relationship between the
developer and the contractor he uses, as you pointed out.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: -- in order to receive any
type of permit they require that the developer supply the
Building Department with the list of contractors that are
working on sites so that they can check their City
licenses prior --
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: That's a good idea.
MS. WILDER: Fontana is doing it.
You know, what really concerns me here
tonight is that we've heard that CC&R's are virtually
worthless unless you're the person that wants to go and
sue your next-door neighbor, because you're not going to
get anything from the City. And I've gone through it when
I was president of the homeowner's group out there.
People were not abiding by the CC&R's and we were told the
same: If you've got a problem with it, sue them.
The Architectural Review Board-- the
William Lyon Company, wanted to give it to the homeowner's
group. They didn't want it anymore. The homeowner's
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group turned it down. But people did go through the
William Lyon Company to get whatever addition they wanted
or to move their fence.
They did have to go through the William Lyon
Company to get that approval before they came to the City
with an issuance of a permit. Because I was a part of
that, so I know that that was going on back in 1985 as
well. So that is one of their complaints.
We do sign the CC&R's. We expect that
somebody is going to uphold those. You don't know that
it's you, the resident, that's going to have to sue your
next-door neighbor because they did something that was in
violation of the CC&R's.
Then on top of that, all I'm hearing, as
well, is that subcontractors or contractors do have to
have a license, but probably can slip through the cracks
and no have one. And that we have no recourse, that the
residents, again, if it's shoddy work, have to take up
some kind of legal suit on their own, again, after they've
just been told they have to do it with the CC&R's if they
want to get anything accomplished.
There has got to be some remedy somewhere
that any developer cannot walk into Rancho Cucamonga, hire
a bunch of bozos to throw up houses, and then there's no
25 1 recourse. And they keep on doing it.
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And when we say we want to try to do
something to protect some of the new homeowners -coming in,
it's illegal. We can't do that either. I just can't
believe that there's nothing left or there's nothing that
the City cannot legally do to protect what we might have
to live with 30 years from now when these houses start
becoming slums or falling down. There's got to be
something to ensure that this place is going to be okay
and not throwing it back on the residents saying, "Well,
it's your problem. It's not our problem anymore."
MR. LAM: Mr. Mayor, let me make one comment.
These CC&R's are not worthless from the standpoint that
the original purpose of the CC&R's is to provide a legal
mechanism for homeowners' organizations to take some
action against a developer or anybody else.
Without the CC&R's there would not have been
that vehicle. That's the real reason for CC&R's.
MS. WILDER: If there's a homeowner's association.
MR. LAM: That's why cities --
MS. WILDER: Correct?
MR. LAM: I could say residents within the CC&R's.
MS. WILDER: Right.
MR. GRANT: Usually it's a group of them getting
together and jointly taking an action. That's why cities
require CC&R's, to provide this mechanism. If it was
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missing, then residents would not have that vehicle.
But by cities' requirements, it does not mean
that the city is enforcing, because we are not allowed to
enforce private CC&R's. It provides a mechanism if
citizens wish to --
MS. WILDER: But the residents don't know that
coming in. You buy your house and the CC&R's are there
and you agree to abide by them. And it's coming from the
City, so you assume that the City is going to back you up
if somebody is violating the CC&R's. It's not thrown back
in your lap and said, "Well, if you've got a problem with
it then you sue them." Because the City can't do it.
MR. GRANT: Thank you. I think CC&R's in the white
paper it says what they are. The State of California has
created an incredible bureaucracy to buy a new home, at
least for the first buyer. It's created all kinds of --
every one of these documents has to be explained.
I agree about -- I mean, the City building --
we have an obligation in our building inspection mode,
there's no question about that. But it should come as no
surprise to people who buy private property, who contract
to buy, who let the developer build it, that they do have
private rights and remedies, and they have a private
contractual relationship with that developer that they
dealt with. And the City can't solve every problem that
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pops up for them.
And it should come as no surprise that if the
developer has another project in the City, that we are not
going to aim at that other project, hold up and cause
problems there to try to leverage them on this project.
I really don't believe these things really do come as a
surprise to most people who enter into a real estate
transaction or buy a house. If it does come as a
surprise, the most bureaucracy for a home purchase ever
invented, which is the State of California system, isn't
getting the message across.
When you sit down and they explain those
45 documents and what they mean to you and that
developer -- and I just went through a spec purchase with
William Lyons, for example, in Orange County. And I had
to personally sit there, required by law, to listen to
this page for about an hour -and -a -half about everything
that was discussed in that, you know, what is this
homeowner's association, what is a recreational
association, what is a mellow ruse district (phonetic)
what can it do to your taxes, virtually everything you're
walking into is required to be orally explained to you,
document by document.
You got to understand. You've got a private
relationship and the County of Orange or the County of
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San Bernardino, the City of Rancho Cucamonga can't solve
all these problems. And that's not excusing building
inspection problems. I mean, I don't take issue with
Mr. Mozer* insofar as he's correct about that. But once
that thing gets through the inspection process and that
homeowner occupies and he's got his CC&R's, and he's got a
problem with customer service, I really can't tell you, in
all honesty, that anything can be applied other than what
the City of Rancho Cucamonga has tried to apply to this
situation the last three months. I really can't. I think
it would be misleading to tell you, "Yeah, here's a
remedy," unless you want to think of a broad-based remedy
like suggesting legislation. Because we've lived through
something like this. And maybe land developers ought to
be licensed. And when things like this happened, just
like things happen with a contractor with a license, maybe
they would be out of the business of doing this anymore in
the State of California. And that has been suggested time
and time again in the legislation.
MS. WILDER: That's not going to fix anything.
Isn't this --
MR. GRANT: That's really a remedy. Maybe these
people ought to be able to keep doing this over and over
again.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: When I find a loophole in a
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nice city like Rancho Cucamonga, that I should add to my
purchase price attorney's fees for any major problems that
I might have.
MS. WILDER: Nothing was being done until we
started threatening the City that we were going to go to
the Council. I know that the City and some of the Staff
have been notified of this problem. Until we threatened
to come to Council, all of a sudden we started getting all
this activity on our house.
MR. MOZER: The Staff tried to help us now because
we said we were going to go to the City Council, but as of
right now, I haven't had anything fixed in my house and
I've been given every assurance that things are going to
be done. Things are not being done.
And he's telling me I should get an attorney.
Why should I get an attorney to have my house fixed when
the City screwed up in the first place?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Mr. Mayor, what would be the
liability to the City on riding on the same thing -- show
a consistent pattern, house after house, that the
City inspectors -- a number of mistakes by approving and
you show this pattern continuously -- yet other tracts
are -- they call it nit-picking from the City inspectors,
and they're beautiful homes.
Would it be some liability on the City's part
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to show consistent negligence when these homes are built
like that without having inspection?
MAYOR STOUT: Mr. Markman.
MR. MARKMAN: The answer to that is no. First of
all, I'm not accepting your allegation that the
Building Department somehow turns its back on this tract
and treated it differently. Even if it were -- and I am
accepting the allegations from very large errors were made
in building inspection. I think that that's accepted.
The fact of the matter is the public -- and
I'll put it this way and I don't want to get into a debate
with people who have a legitimate problem who sort of
resent being told that they do have a private remedy and
they probably can exercise their rights against this
developer and get it corrected. They don't want to hear
that. They want the City to do that. I understand that.
The public -- all the taxpayers, not just
you -- but the public in Rancho Cucamonga has a statutory
immunity when building inspectors or plan checkers make
errors because it's recognized by the legislature.
It happens every day. And you are not insured -- you
know, you are not insured and the City does not warrant
the accuracy or plan checks or inspections under the law.
And the City -- it is not the City -- is the taxpayers do
not stand behind you in that regard. I'm just telling you
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that bluntly. There is a statutory immunity against that.
You can go check it out with your otan
counsel. You will find out there is a statutory immunity
because of the recognition that you can't catch all the
things that happen in construction. Again, I'm not trying
to get into a debate or excuse errors in building
inspection. I think it would be criminal for people to
walk out of here thinking the City has some weapon that's
an arsenal that it's not using in a situation where we can
solve the problem. I think that would be very poor --
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I don't think that's the
case. I think what I'm learning -- I'm not trying to
accuse that we have not exhausted every resource. What
I'm trying to find out is: What other resources and what
actions can we take. And I guess I'm just aghast to
believe that we can't do more than we've done. I just
can't believe we can allow developers to come in, throw up
these houses that aren't built to code even -- we're not
talking just aesthetics, not to code -- and just walk
away.
MR. MARKMAN: There's no good answer when you see
the developer do this and hear these stories. They have,
unfortunately, the right to come back into town, going
through Planning and starting another development. If the
Counsel wants to allocate resources and direct inspection.
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I mean, it almost becomes a council policy management
issue as to how you're going to treat that developer the
next time he comes through.
So most like -- I think it's analagous to a
police problem. If you have an area where there's a
police problem the question is: How much manpower are you
going to direct at the problem? Really, that's what it
boils -- that's what available to the council.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I'm sort of in shock tonight
because I've probably falsely assumed, as probably most of
the citizens in the city, that when the City is signing
off that a building has been inspected, that that's
precisely why we have the building inspected, to make sure
it's complete and safe and so forth.
So the errors that have been brought to us
tonight, and I don't think we have a complete list, appear
to be blatant. And I'm hearing -- and this is what I'm in
shock about -- that our inspectors do a perfunctory job,
or whatever you want to call it, you know, when you walk
by a house and you drive by and you sign it off -- I'm in
shock that that's how we -- if we are viewing that as
acceptable, that's certainly not what I was assuming we
were doing when we were inspecting.
Now, if the issue is we don't have enough
inspector time, then we need to know that so that we can
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contract with inspectors or whatever we need to do to get
the kind of inspection job we need in order for -those
houses to be appropriately inspected.
There's no way that I can have justification
in my mind that those kinds of errors were made because
somebody overlooked it. I don't know anything about
building. I can't hammer two boards straight, but I could
see that those things were wrong. That's ridiculous.
That's absolutely unacceptable. Let's hire some more
inspectors if they don't have time to do it right.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Mr. Mayor, maybe I could
change the tone a little bit. The comments that were made
with regard to private enforcement was intended to point
out another remedy. That was not intended to say -- not
look at the public participation, but only look at he
private. It was only meant to point that out as another
option. This is not meant to excuse any of the items that
were brought up to our attention.
In fact, I know that Mr. Grant and
Mr. Markman have been diligently trying to ascertain a
list of specific problem items up there. I know I've
talked to Mr. Huggins personally and I've asked him twice
in a telephone conversation to give us a list. Because we
said: Anything that has to co with Code violations,
please bring to our attention. If you feel that
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lower -echelon staff have not been dealing with them, the
top-level staff will deal with them as long as we are
provided with specific items in there. And if there are
Code violations, the Building Department will deal with
those Code violations.
I don't believe we've had an opportunity to
hear from Mr. Grant as to the kinds of things he's found
out there. I know that the discussions at staff meetings
he found things like lumber cut after inspections;
replacing certain windows; other things happening out
there. So rather than get into a mood of City versus
Homeowners, I think that the City needs to work together
with the homeowners, identify the specific problems and
deal with those problems, at the same time pointing out
all the various options to try and cover all their
problems.
I think if we ignore other remedies, it is
really negligent on our part not to point out all the
options that are available, or even the private rights
that an individual has. So we are asking that all the
code items, those particular problems, whether they're
code enforcement, Building Code or -- items, be put forth
on a table so that their department heads can direct the
Staff to deal with those. Then we can report back on what
25 1 has been done.
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If we're talking about a whole grouping of
items, I can systematically have Staff deal with these in
different categories in a very positive way.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: You know, we do contract,
pay for, whatever, Mr. Markman's services and I appreciate
those; however, I am not familiar with all the legalities.
I don't see how we can issue permits to this particular
company, I really don't.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I don't think we can do it.
I can't, in all good conscience --
CITY COUNCILWOMAN: I feel like a crook doing it.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I do, too.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Until they clean up a
portion of what they have. I do feel like the Building
Department is trying. I really sincerely do. I think
they're probably overburdened, overworked, and that
creates with the homeowners and potential homeowners, a
potential frustration. But I cannot in good conscience --
I prefer to be sued, I think, by this particular
developer, but to have the money when they're done with
their other lawsuits than to issue another permit. We're
just asking to impact our own services even more by
allowing them to continue to build.
CITY COUNCILWOMAN: Let them prove to the jury or
whatever, why they should be able to continue to build,
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given the evidence that they have gotten behind in.
MAYOR STOUT: I think we may be able to find at
least 15, 20 witnesses out here, sign them up.
CITY COUNCILWOMAN: I'd like to ask Brad: Brad,
how many -- just on the average -- building permits do we
issue a month? Isn't it around six or seven hundred?
MR. BULLER: Jerry would have a better handle on
the actual number.
CITY COUNCILWOMAN: I know June was real high at
like 900.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Probably about an average of
600 building permits.
CITY COUNCILWOMAN: And how many inspectors?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: We have 10 through just our
board, plus, right now, four contractors.
CITY COUNCILWOMAN: 14 in the field?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Four of those within the
last two months.
CITY COUNCILWOMAN: Is that standard ratios to do
inspections for 900 permits?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: They're busy.
CITY COUNCILWOMAN: Is that standard ratios?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I guess it's a reasonable
number. We've had that number for a very short time.
We had nine last year, plus part of the year, too.
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CITY COUNCILWOMAN: We've had less; right?
That's a lot of permits and just a few bodies.
MAYOR STOUT: Do you have a comment you'd like to
make? Could you stand up to the mike?
MS. GLASS: My name is Cindy Glass. I presently
own a Nordic home. I am buying another home. I didn't
buy the house for the house. I bought it for the property
because I love The Woods area. Okay?
The first house I'm in, I've got plumbing
problems. I've got raining in the family room, leaking
under my sink, leaking in my garage. Nordic has for --
let's see, I wrote to Mr. Lam, Mr. Grant over a year ago_
about these problems. I've been in touch with the
State Contractors' Board. I have not gotten any response
up until when we started complaining about coming here.
I asked Nordic to do something very, very
simple, replace the garage door springs. They wouldn't do
that. So the springs broke here in December and the
garage door came down on my 9 -year-old daughter's face,
busted her face up. Something as simple as that and I
couldn't even get a response out of them.
In December also, the other house I purchased
from Nordic blew down. It was what they call "wrapped."
I got ahold of Jim Schroeder at the City, had him come out
and look at the house with Nordic officials and
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everything.
Jim Schroeder told them to replace -all this
framing from Point A to Point B, replace it. So Nordic
came up with the Civil Engineer Report saying their wood
was fine. They never did replace stick of wood, a nail or
anything. They just pushed it back up and left it. And I
have it in writing from Mr. Schroeder himself to replace
that and they never did.
Now they're drywalling the house and they're
not going to do anything about this house that's wrecked.
It's leaning like this. (Indicating.)
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: There was no engineering
report filed by Nordic to the City stating that the wood
was okay.
MS. GLASS: That's what we're saying about the
inconsistencies. The City -- the Building and Safety
Department will come up here and pick apart a homeowner
who is building an individual house, but they won't pick
apart the developers.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: That's just exactly my point
of why we shouldn't allow them to continue on.
MS. GLASS: They're strict on us, but on the
developers, they just let them get away with murder,
out-and-out murder. I'm sorry, that's just the way we
feel at this point. We're frustrated, we're angry. We
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want something done.
I've spent $10,000 in lawyers' fees fighting
Nordic. Where does it end?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Where has it gotten you at
this point?
MS. GLASS: It's gotten me in court three or four
times and that's about it.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: By the time you see him in
court Nordic will have changed their name and moved
somewhere else and you get zero.
MS. GLASS: They've got nine aliases that they're
going to be going under. They've got another tract
starting up on Atowanda that they'e gonig to be building,
different name.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: They've all got the same
mailing address but a different name.
MAYOR STOUT: Jack, what would be the problem with
the City Council writing a letter to the Attorney
General's Office requesting a full investigation of this
organization?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Yes. And I think the
mayor's business address might be another place where we
might ask the same questions. And we already know the
code sections; we have pursued that. Mr. Markman has
already made those contacts. But I think something from
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the Mayor might catch the Attorney General's attention.
The Attorney General wasn't interested in
pursuing it specifically. But I think what would be
interesting would be to get a transcript of this entire
evening and send that with a letter both to the
District Attorney and the Attorney General.
MAYOR STOUT: Can you draft such a letter for us?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I certainly can.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Where do we go from here?
MR. LAM: Mr. Mayor, on top of that, I would
request that the people here either.late tonight, please
write to Jerry and list specific items that you suspect
are code violations.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKERS: We've done that.
MAYOR STOUT: Hold it, hold it.
MR. LAM: What I'm saying is: We don't know if
they're the same one that Jerry has. He's been going to
obtain all the different individuals' problems. And he's
not had a chance to do much talking tonight. But we want
to be able to compare these things and make certain that
we're not overlooking anything.
MAYOR STOUT: I have a different idea. Why don't
we address a letter to them requesting them to give this
information, not just to these individuals that are
present, but everybody who lives in that tract. I think
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the message we will get across is that we're looking into
this.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Even if we don't get the
winter storms yet, we're wondering about --
MR. LAM: Well, our problem is going to be: Unless
we get the addresses we won't --
MAYOR STOUT: We need addresses from the people
here, too. But let me -- it's after 1:00 right now. And
clearly everybody's mind starts to turn to mush about now.
We want to get some kind of a solution, maybe not
Mr. Alexander's, but at least mine -- some kind of
solution out there. And we're not getting anywhere as far
as that goes.
We've made it perfectly clear there are
problems out there. Maybe we need more specific
information to start working on that, but we've made it
perfectly clear there are problems. Simply reiterating
the fact that there are problems out there is not going to
do us any good at 1:00 in the morning today.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I wanted to ask one more
question. I was wondering if the City Attorney could
review our original conditions of approval and then review
our CC&R's to clarify to the homeowners the position of
the City is that they have no legal right or legal binding
between the original conditions of approval --
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UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I've got a point I'd like to
make about that. Let me throw this out here. These
Mark three homes that you've been talking about. I happen
to live in one of those. We got together and hired an
attorney and we did our own lawlsuit and we were
successful in winning that lawsuit. That's why the
approach -- when we're talking about that approach, it's
not totally foreign to this City when something like that
happens. There's a lot of you out there and you have a
lot of remedies that aren't necessarily -- I'm not saying
there are some City things that we can do. I'm saying
that you've got a lot of things out there that aren't code
violations -- things that are poor workmanship, poor
craftsmanship, so forth, these people shouldn't get away
with. Simply because you've got a roof over your head
that doesn't leak or you've got, you know, a driveway that
doesn't have cracks in or or sidewalks, isn't the problem.
Those houses are not well built.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I agree with that. But I
don't live in a Nordic home. So my concern earlier was
the inconsistencies of the inspections and the comment
made by the City and members of the City, that they cannot
enforce or help us enforce, if that word is quoted, any
restrictions in our CC&R's.
25 1 And our question, I believe, on that end of
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it was that the CC&R's are required under the original
conditions of approval before the map can be recorded.
There is some verbiage in there relating to
the City. I wonder if the attorney could review that and
get back to us and say, "Look."
MR. MARKMAN: I would be happy to review the
documents.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Just review them. It's been
a long time. It's been 1984 is when they were recorded.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: In all fairness, Mr. Markman
indicated that he was not the City Attorney at that time.
So there's no --
MR. MARKMAN: I would be very happy to review the
documents.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: And see where they stand
because I know at the time of -- I know --
MR. MARKMAN: I'll be happy to review it. But let
me tell you what to look for, though: If the CC&R
intended for the City to enforce -- and I have seen them
like this -- you would see right in the CC&R's that the
City is made a party. Or it says: This cannot be amended
without the approval of the City of Rancho Cucamonga, or
the City of Rancho Cucamonga may enforce this. You can
see those, and I don't think you are going to see this in
those CC&R's. If you see it in there, then I will be the
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first to say that as to these, we're not correct. But I
don't think you're going to find that. But I will look at
that.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I just wanted to clarify
that.
CITY COUNCILWOMAN: Mine does.
MR. MARKMAN: William Lyon said* the City can
enforce them?
CITY COUNCILWOMAN: Yes, that's why everybody came
unglued and that's why they said they thought the City
could enforce them.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: There's some verbiage in
here of that, too. And I think that's why maybe it would
be to our interest to have the City Attorney --
MAYOR STOUT: Well, he's agreed to do it.
MR. MARKMAN: I'll be happy to do it.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I've listened to all the
complaints that everybody has had and I see a lot of
emotions, a lot of frustrations, a lot of problems that
aren't getting solved. Everybody's just airing them, but
not any course of action to take care of people with
existing problems. I've seen some attention paid to the
future problems, me moving into my house. What about
other developments down the road?
Rather than the people in my future tract --
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future homeowners which are very concerned about getting
in before there's any kind of problem with Nordic where
they can't secure their homes, I think possibly some kind
of an organization between the homeowners of the existing
homes -- and both Nordic I, II, whichever -- and the
future people here that are moving in, which I'm trying to
represent, to get together and get legal counsel to try
and solve the problem. Where instead of having 5 to 10
people, we have 75 people, homeowners that form with a low
fee basis to try and get some kind of resource.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: That's what we did and it
was very successful.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: When I move in my house, and
like the other 23 people that bought homes in Woodridge or
Nordic or whatever you want to call it tonight, we have a
vested interest that we're not going to back out of. It's
just things have happened. We can't back out. We have to
go forward with the situation.
So I just think that the only way there is
going to be any kind of recourse if some kind of control
action with Nordic on the part of everybody through a
legal action. I mean, I'd like to come to the City -- I
don't want to come to the City later on when I have
problems, because, you know, you're trying to do something
but you don't have teeth. You can't do anything for me to
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solve the problems, per se.
I would have to go to my own attorney, seek
my own recourse through the legal recourse and try and do
something. And if there's 50 to 75 people out there
trying to do it, that would be the way to try to
accomplish it. But I think it would have to be controlled
in the sense to see what they can try and get out of
Nordic as to going along. Because there are different
names; there are different people. And if they're all
reflected Woodridge, Sapphire, Terrace, Noric Woods II, if
all those people were represented in that group, then
there is going to be a definite pattern that can be
established.
But we want to go through the course where we
can get something done, not where it's in their interest
to bail out where nobody can get anything.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Nordic has a class action
suit against them now. There will be many more to follow,
I'm sure.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Nordic is a limited
partnership. Under a limited partnership if they go to
another one and they have -- the shoe* cannot sue an
individual. You can sue the company, period. -- then
it's over with. Then what legal recourse do you have?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I don't profess to have the
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answer. I don't have the best answers to that. That's
why I would go to my attorney to get answers to -that.
But the main thing which I came tonight --
and I learned a lot here -- and I'm glad I came, but I'm
still going to buy that house because one way or the
other -- the point I'm trying to find out, basically from
Staff and from Council, is are the inspections at this
time going to be released through to final based on the
merits of the Woodridge Estates, based on probably -- and
I hope improved inspection capability, based on what their
capabilities are to Staff -- if they call for inspections
at Woodridge, are they going to be granted inspections?
If the homes are merited, are they going to
get the approved, you know, inspection approval? Are they
going to pass inspection and is it going to go forward or
is this still going to be an enforcing capability from
this point on if there is more problems? That's the main
question I was trying to find out tonight.
MAYOR STOUT: Jack?
MR. LAM: Members of the City Council, I kind of
feel obliged to respond to a few of the remarks that were
made. The implications that Building and Safety has done
nothing to resolve these peoples' problems reminded me of
a meeting that I sat in my office, and I believe it was
raining that day, so you have some idea of when it was --
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with Miss Glass. We discussed the individual items of her
list on a point -by -point basis, and I pointed out to her
those things which I felt we did have some control over,
and those we did not because they were not safety issues.
The primary issue in her case at that time
was electrical problems, overloading of circuits. I had
my electrical specialist a number of hours up there going
through the issue -- the issues and the wiring system with
the electrician and found that it was to code.
I met with Mr. Huggins back in the first part
of the year and he had some problems with his house. I
believe that he failed to mention that, but I believe that
they have primarily been corrected. He mentioned the
pipe. Our inspector made an error. We went back and we
corrected those. That's a matter of opinion, Mr. Mayor.
Opinions differ.
Mr. Huggins also mentioned how easy it was to
get a septic tank system approved by the Building
Inspector. He failed to mention a number that we did not
approve from day to day because they were not ready for
inspection. Several of them were leaking and the
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We have gone well beyond our code compliance
efforts in addressing the 11 complaints that I had. And
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we are still willing to try to correct those aesthetic or
non -code issues. We probably will not be able to correct
all of them because of the issues of safety or aesthetics
and desires of the tenants.
In response to Mr. Martino's question, at
least the first one, we have indicated to Nordic, based on
the progress that we have observed in the last few days,
that we would reinstate inspection process -- the regular
inspection procedures on Woodridge Estates. Now, I'm
hesitant to say that we won't reinstate them because of
the lack of cooperation that we have experience starting
and stopping before.
In relation to a comment that was made
earlier about the developers kind of being out of the
reach of the contractor's board, it's my understanding
that the contractor's board since January for contracts
that were enacted after January 1, we do now have some
authority to respond to complaints against developers.
These permits were issued prior to January.
And so it probably will not be in that category; but for
the future, apparently there is now some recourse that the
contractor's law can take against developers, where up to
January there was not. I don't have copies of the law,
but I was advised of that by the Contractor's Board. I
don't think I have anything further that I can add that
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would be constructive at this late hour.
CITY COUNCILWOMAN: Mr. Markman, maybe you can give
us an update on that law.
MR. MARKMAN: Yes. I have already made a note to
see if there has been legislation to get some control over
developers who do these sorts of things. Because our view
would be to pursue any avenue of the stage and see if we
can correct the problem.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: We haven't filed the
contractor's license board.
MAYOR STOUT: Be brief. I'm going to cut it off
after this. We're really not very productive at this
time. We need to take action and quit talking.
MR. GLASS: I agree with that.
This is Dwayne Glass again. Sir, ladies and
gentlemen. You're more than welcome to come out to
Lot 12. As I said earlier today, I had a walk-through.
I had warped walls. I have cement that is filled in.
These things -- drywall was bought off by the City.
MAYOR STOUT: What street is that, Lot 12?
MR. GLASS: Copper Mountain.
CITY COUNCILWOMAN: Will you be there tomorrow?
MR. GLASS: Yes, I'll be there. Anytime any of you
members would like to come, I will show you these things.
Copper Hill was bought off. I called the City and said,
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"Hey, these walls are warped by two inches." They sent
out an inspector, Mr. Martin did. I give him credit.
When you get on him, you tell him, he sends a man out.
But why do I have to take and point to this
wall -- this wall, when you can stand 10 feet away and see
that it's wrong? There's a wall in the washroom where the
washer -dryer is and it is two or three inches.
MAYOR STOUT: Look, we've gone through this before.
We know there's problems. The only question I have is:
warped walls, is that something that's a Code violation or
is that something that's the quality of the house?
Can we make them straighten a wall that's crooked?
MR. GLASS: What about the floor? The floor is not
level. It has one -- it goes down, it curves up one to
two -and -a -half inches, then bows back down. That's the
framing. The gentleman is saying it's not the Code.
If the frame is not straight, then what is the Code?
MAYOR STOUT: What are the Codes? We're talking
about things that I don't --
MR. LAM: Mr. Mayor, members of the City Council,
going back a number of years -- and I can't put my finger
on the exact Code issue -- but at one time there were
workmanship provisions within the Code. They were removed
because it was not related to safety, health, safety and
general welfare of the populace as being an issue that
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government should be involved in. The crookedness of a
stud or deflection of a stud has nothing to do with how
much it will support until it gets beyond the point of its
centroid.
Issues of holes being filled in the wall,
it's not a safety issue. Patching of the concrete, there
is not --
MR. GLASS: Concrete is from the foundation you
would have --
MR. LAM: Well, Mr. Glass, I'm sorry. I don't want
to pursue arguments here, but it's a matter of opinion.
And without knowing the situation as to how that wall
exists, whether it's a bearing wall, a non-bearing wall,
how much load is on it, how this patch was done, how it
was adhered, if it was, there are all these factors that
enter into it, and I can't argue that point.
MR. GLASS: Come out and look at it.
MR. LAM: I have been out there.
MR. GLASS: You should have seen the earthquake
strap that a piece of -- two -by -six that fits in, not
nailed and buried in --
MR. LAM: Mr. Glass, I do not make inspections on
all the houses.
I'm sorry, Mr. Mayor, I'm getting out of
line.
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MAYOR STOUT: All right. The point has been made.
I'm not interested in debating this any further tonight
because we're not getting anywhere. We're not one iota
closer than we were four hours ago.
It's been informative. We've learned a lot,
but we still need to come up with some action plan.
Nobody here is satisfied with what's going on so we do
need to do something about it. So I want some positive
suggestions about that, not name calling or any further
factual matters, and tell us that those houses are lousy
because they are.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I don't want Nordic to be
issued any more permits to continue building --
CITY COUNCILWOMAN: I agree.
OTHER COUNCILWOMAN: I agree. Let them sue us.
MAYOR STOUT: All right. Do they have permits
on -- they don't? Okay. Then we'll not issue them the
permits.
CITY COUNCILWOMAN: Then we can always say it was
2:00 in the morning.
MR. MARKMAN: I don't want to reiterate. Certainly
I understand Mr. Alexander's and Council's point. All I
can tell you is that when you hold up another tract that's
already in the process, you have purchasers say that are
waiting for completion and waiting for occupancy --
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MAYOR STOUT: It's my understanding they haven't
issued permits there.
MR. MARKMAN: If you hold up the other tract we
probably will invite a lawsuit and I just want to explain
to the Council that that involves -- well, we'll look into
that particular situation.
What I can tell you is: They have financing.
If they've gone through the plan check stage and they're
through architecture, that what you are inviting is a
lawsuit for money damages for the carrying costs. So it's
not just let them sue us to make us start inspecting,
it's, you know, the time we lose could be at substantial_
taxpayer's expense.
CITY COUNCILWOMAN: What about withholdina the
permits for future applications?
MR. MARKMAN: Again, I don't know what they have
that's gone through Planning. And you know, if we were
going to do something with Nordic in the future, I would
prefer to attempt to work with Brad at doing something in
the planning conditions that could give us a hole*.
Once they're through planning, the Council,
as you know, you get to the stage where you have a
mandatory duty to take them through the permit and
inspection process. And to the extent we refuse to do so,
we are subjecting the taxpayers to respond to substantial
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monetary damages. I have to point that out. It becomes a
monetary issue for the City as well as a moral issue.
MAYOR STOUT: I understand.
MR. MARKMAN: My business is to point it out and
it's the Council's business to tell us what to do anyway.
MAYOR STOUT: The Council has reached frustration.
I understand the potential ramifications; however, let me
put it this way: I would like to explore not allowing
Nordic to continue to work within the city until
corrections are made to satisfy not only the Council but
the Staff.
MR. ALEXANDER: Can we write them a letter telling
them what we're doing?
CITY COUNCILWOMAN: Can we kind of threaten them?
MR. MARKMAN: What I'd like to do is find out what
they have in the city, under whatever name. We know who
the human beings are, what states they're at, and report
that back to the Council and see if you want action like
that taken. Because it very well may be that they, as to
all of them, they've got purchasers waiting to occupy
them.
CITY COUNCILWOMAN: That would be the smart way to
go; wouldn't it?
MR. MARKMAN: The Council needs to know that before
we take that action.
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MAYOR STOUT: I don't mind doing that as long as
you tell them that that's what we're thinking about doing.
MR. MARKMAN: Well, you know, I'd almost suggest
taking the transcript of this meeting and providing them a
courtesy copy so that they know everything that we're
doing.
MAYOR STOUT: I don't think these people in here --
and I mean this in all honesty -- has said one single
thing here that they haven't said to Nordic. Those people
are not stupid. They know what they're doing to these
people. I just want Nordic to know that we had this
hearing tonight and we heard these concerns and we're
seriously considering not allowing them any permits.
MR. MARKMAN: Well, I think that's something that's
within Jack's purview to convey the message. I'd be happy
to do it.
MAYOR STOUT: We'd like it to come from our
attorney, is what I would like.
MR. MARKMAN: It's up to you.
CITY COUNCILWOMAN: Except our attorney doesn't
think that.
MR. MARKMAN: It doesn't matter. I'll convey the
message that Council wants conveyed, if you want.
MAYOR STOUT: That's a factual statement. We did
discuss that, that possibility tonight. You told us what
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your opinion was, but we did discuss it. And I think we
ought to tell them that we've been thinking abodt it.
MR. MARKMAN: Okay. Let me make a note. I will
convey to Nordic your message in a way I think that puts
us in a better legal posture.
MAYOR STOUT: That's why we pay you all the big
bucks. The other thing is, I want the letter to know to
whoever it is that investigates fraud, because in my
position, I would suggest that we send it to the
Attorney Generals first and to have them refer it to the
District Attorney.
MR. MARKMAN: I know they may make a referral to
US.
MAYOR STOUT: Explain to them what my situation is
and that's why we're --
MR. MARKMAN: I'd like the Council to agree to get
this hearing transcribed, however, so that we can supply
everything that was said here to those -- there's no use
in us sending them a generalized letter.
CITY COUNCILWOMAN: Attach this to it.
MAYOR STOUT: The first thing I would like is I
would like everybody that we think that is appropriate in
that tract that is a homeowner send a letter to the City
and indicate the fact that we're conducting an
investigation and we want them to write us with written
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responses outlining all the problems that they've had with
that individual.
CITY COUNCILWOMAN: And attach those letters to the
other letter that you're sending the transcript of this.
MR. LAM: Mr. Mayor, we will be asking for a
listing of these problems that have been identified by the
individual homeowners so that we can cross-reference
whether those issues have been brought to our attention or
not. Certain things may have fallen through the cracks.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Mr. Mayor, there has been a
positive side that through the inspectors, they have
applied pressure where Nordic has come a thousand percent
the other direction, which is not enough. But what I'm
saying: Compared to what they have been doing, they have
come around where they are replacing driveways. They are
trying to get things going. But this is just, like I say,
to pacify you. The City Inspectors, they have came out,
and like I said, they have backed what we've called up and
say: Hey, this is this. We appreciate what the
inspectors have been doing lately. The frustrations
prior, that is past. We are working from now.
MAYOR STOUT: We're not going to discontinue our
efforts, but there is one thing I do recommend. I
sincerely believe this: Don't believe the City can answer
25 1 all your problems. You guys are going to have to get
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together.
If you take one single homeowner out there
and take a look at their problems, if you're in a court of
law looking at that problem, you can say it's an
abhorition, you can say it's an accident, you can say
whatever you want to say about it. But if you've got 50
people that have all differnt kinds of problems, the
circumstantial evidence becomes overwhelming.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I mentioned this two years
ago to the people in the original Nordic. I had an
attorney at the time. I mentioned about doing this. I
was ignored until things started falling apart, major.
Then they finally realized. I've only got my attorney.
My wife was wrong. I've spent over $15,000 on attorneys'
fees. I'm going to continue with my process. What they
have to do is up to them.
MAYOR STOUT: Fine.
CITY COUNCILWOMAN: You know, I think more than
anything what this might do is send out a message more
than anything to the other developers in town who might
dream of perhaps not building a quality home in
Rancho Cucamonga. I think this is going to have --
CITY COUNCILWOMAN: Well, if I were the developer
the message I would get is I could get away with it.
That's absolutely the message I would get.
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CITY COUNCILWOMAN: Well, we just heard we couldn't
do anything about it.
CITY COUNCILWOMAN: Yeah, we can't do anything
about it.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I have a slightly different
feeling about it. There are developers in this city.
There are developers in the city that like to do things
the right way for their own reasons. So this particular
organization seems to have 9,000 times more problems than
some of the others do. I have talked to homeowners in the
city that talk about some of the developers around here
that say, "All I did was pick up a phone and the next
thing I know, there was a guy out here replacing my front
door," or there was a guy doing this and that.
Those are the kinds of people where business
is important to them and their reputation is important. To
these people, their reputation is not important and they
simply don't give a damn and it's obvious.
CITY COUNCILWOMAN: But given the chance, some
developers --
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: What I'm saying is we don't
need to give a message to everybody in this town because
there are a lot of people around here that are appalled
by --
CITY COUNCILWOMAN: But those that are good won't
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be bothered with the message. They know they're good.
It's those that aren't, and there are those out -there.
MAYOR STOUT: Is that everything we want to do
tonight? All right.
(Transcription of tapes concluded.)
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REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE
I,
a
Shorthand Reporter, do hereby certify that the foregoing
proceeding was written by me in Stenotypy, and
transcribed into typewriting and that the foregoing is a
true and correct copy of my shorthand notes thereof.
Dated :
AUG 2 5 1989
I�TTTT1�t��
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