HomeMy WebLinkAbout1995/05/30 - Workshop Minutes - PC-HPC May 30, 1995
CITY OF RANCHO CUCAMONGA
CITY COUNCIL MINUTES
Adjourned Joint Meetin.cl
with the Plannine Commission
A. CALL TO ORDER
An adjourned joint meeting of the Rancho Cucamonga City Council and the Planning Commission was held
on Tuesday, May 30, 1995, in the Tri-Communities Conference Room of the Civic Center, located at 10500
Civic Center Drive, Rancho Cucamonga, California. The meeting was called to order at 5:10 p.m. by Mayor
William J. Alexander.
Present were Councilmembers: Paul Biane, James Curatalo, Rex Gutierrez, and Mayor William J. Alexander.
Present were Planning Commissioners: Heinz Lumpp, Larry McNiel, Peter Tolstoy and Chairman E. David
Barker.
Also present were: Jack Lam, City Manager; Brad Buller, City Planner; Alan Warren, Associate Planner; Joe
O'Neil, City Engineer; Betty Miller, Associate Engineer; and Jan Sutton, Deputy City Clerk.
Absent was Councilmember: Diane Williams.
Absent was Planning Commissioner: John Melcher.
B. ITEMS OF DISCUSSION
B1. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: April 25, 1995
MOTION: Moved by Barker, seconded by Biane to approve the minutes, Motion carried unanimously by the
Planning Commission 4-0-1 (Melcher absent). Motion carried unanimously by the City Council 4-0-1 (Williams
absent).
B2. DISCUSSION OF THE DESIGN OF ON-SITE ANCILLARY STRUCTURES (Continued from April
25, 1995 joint meeting)
Mayor Alexander stated he asked forthis item to be placed on the agenda. He said there have been occasions
where they would see ancillary buildings that were rather unique structures designed to house trash, etc., and
asked why somelimes it seemed like they have changed a lot from past design, especially since it appears they
would be quite expensive to build.
City Council/Planning Commission
Joint Meeting Minutes
May 30, 1995
Page 2
Chairman Barker stated this is a subject that the Planning Commission is currently reviewing. He stated he has
taken a number of photos around town of the different structures, but they have not had a chance to have a
meeting yet to discuss this issue. It was felt there should be guidelines, as well as having the structures relate
to the specific project itself. He felt imagewise it should do the job it is supposed to do, and in some instances
appearance is more important, and in other cases it should just be practical.
Mayor Alexander stated he has spent a few hours ddving around and looking at various sites, and the new ones
are quite attractive, but there are some from the early days that are quite bad. He was glad to see that the
Commission was looking at this.
Commissioner McNiel stated they are what they are because they were dealing with interior structures, the lids
have to go up, they have to plan for the winds, etc.; therefore, it would be difficult to design one that was not the
height that it is, particularly in commercial areas.
Mayor Alexander stated even the bins have changed drastically over the years so that can have an impact on
the design of the structures.
Commissioner Tolstoy stated sometimes you can have a hard time convincing the tenants to close the bins after
they have put the trash in.
Chairman Barker stated property management and maintenance are a concern, but there are some things you
can do with a design to help inhibit paper flow. He stated some designs don't mesh with the new pick-up
equipment, so you can create a problem if you are not careful.
Councilmember Curatalo asked if this was a point of contention with the developers.
Chairman Barker stated some developers would like to just put in a little block enclosure and leave it at that.
Councilmember Curatalo asked if this issue ever delayed a project.
Chairman Barker stated no, it was just a point of debate.
Councilmember Biane asked what direction was the Commission taking.
Chairman Barker stated there were guidelines, but not everyone was in agreement with them. They have told
staff they would like to spend some time re-evaluating the guidelines, but when a developer comes in they are
given the current guidelines up front so that there are no surprises.
Mayor Alexander asked if a business owner had their own suggestions, do they consider those also.
Commissioner McNiel stated they were always open to suggestions. He stated they have a project right now
where they are trying to devise an industrial type enclosure for a commercial center, but they have to be careful
because if they allow them to make a change that is not consistent, it has a two-fold impact. First it is not fair
to those who have come before and chosen to do the right thing, and secondly once they allow something that
is inferior, they will never be able to come back to what they have required before. Once it is done, it is done
and they have to live with it. It really has to be considered in the big picture of a project.
Councilmember Gutierrez asked if it made a difference where the enclosure was located on the property.
Commissioner McNiel stated if it is in view of the street, then it should be a reasonably attractive building. He
stated usually whatever the property will yield in leasable footage is garnered, than they plot out parking,
landscaping, and ancillary buildings, which oftentimes means they will be put in areas that do not serve anyone.
City Council/Planning Commission
Joint Meeting Minutes
May 30, 1995
Page 3
Commissioner Tolstoy stated if you were to look at the Foothill Marketplace in the back alley, you will notice
that those trash receptacles am different than others because they are in a place that is not open to public view.
Councilmember Gutierrez agreed that the receptacles should look nice when they were in the public view.
Councilmember Curatalo asked if they had policy over restrooms in public places, how they are maintained or
if they are accessible to the public.
Commissioner McNiel stated those are governed by the Health Department, not the City because that was an
interior function.
Brad Buller, City Planner, stated most of those standards come under the Building Code, they are not a
Planning Commission issue. He stated the Planning Commission may get involved if there were service doors
accessing restrooms or other service areas, but not in any other requirements.
Brad Buller, City Planner, stated another thing they have been looking at because they are finding that they are
becoming problems is the location of telephone booths. They are asking that in shopping centers they be
identified up-front where they will be located because there have been problems with the wrong type of people
congregating at them.
B3. DISCUSSION OF ZONING FOR RESIDENTIAL LOTS, I.E., MINIMUM LOT SIZE, SIDEYARD AND
STREET SETBACKS (Continued from April 25; 1995 joint meeting)
Councilmember Biane stated he asked for this item, and part of the reason stemmed from knowing many first-
time homebuyers that have to go out of the area to find affordable housing. He stated when looking at the
available land available for building stock, he was wondering if there was a planning element that would
consider the first-time homebuyer. He stated he is hearing from people that they would like to be in Rancho
Cucamonga, but would prefer to have a detached home, even on a small lot, over a condominium. He was
wondering if Rancho Cucamonga was addressing that market and looking at providing those types of
opportunities for people that want to live in the community.
Chairman Barker stated the City Council made a decision a few years ago to decrease the density in Rancho
Cucamonga, and they have to be careful that they don't take his comment and re-interpret that as an increase
in density. He stated there are ways of providing separate homes for people, such as zero lot line.
Brad Buller, City Planner, stated they have some successful projects that are zero lot line, staggered lots, etc.
He added they are aware of several developers that will be approaching the City in the near future with small
lot subdivisions, He stated what they have found in the past, in areas like Victoria, where there is Medium or
Low-Medium density, the developer will reduce their yield to come in with a single family development because
they know that is what people want. He stated there are developments in Victoria where the lots are 3,000-
3,500 square feet, and you can go through those neighborhoods and see what that means for a neighborhood.
Chairman Barker suggested they could take the Council on a tour to look at some of the developments to allow
them to see what it really means when you talk about small lots. He stated small lots can create other
problems with the streetscape, driveway cuts, parking, etc.
City Council/Planning Commission
Joint Meeting Minutes
May 30, 1995
Page 4
Brad Bullet, City Planner, stated other cities offer the same lots and units as in Rancho Cucamonga, but the
cost of the land is cheaper in these other areas, plus there are more amenities offered in Rancho Cucamonga,
so it is hard for them to compete in that same price bracket. He stated that the developers are trying to come
up with ways to compete in that area though, and that Lewis Homes is going to be coming in with a small lot
development and the Commission is open to the idea.
Councilmember Curatalo asked if they try to look at the position of the houses on the lots, if that would make
a difference.
Brad Buller, City Planner, stated there are some areas where they have houses back to back, and some people
like that and some don't. He stated there is a mix, some have greenbelts in between, some are only 30 feet
apart between the back walls, so it is all considered.
Jack Lam, City Manager, stated if they look at the history of the City, there are certain areas where the City
looked at some innovative housing designs that were not politically acceptable, such as cluster housing in the
hillside area. Everyone overlooked the preservation aspects of that type of development and looked at it as
a slum. Typically in the past it has been a political policy that governed whether to have smaller lots, or different
kinds of loll other than the traditional single family home. He stated that over time that might change, but that
factor needs to be considered.
Chairman Barker stated these issues raise a lot of emotions in the community, and have created public outcry
in the past.
Commissioner McNiel stated there is a conflict between the developer that wants to get the most out of their
property and the residents that do not want a high density. He stated they have to be cautious because what
they do today will be there 20-40 years and they have to consider what it will look like in that time. If they were
to develop like Moreno Valley and do a lot of fast development on small loll, then they will end up in the same
direction that city is apparently heading, and that would be tragic. He stated they have in the past resisted the
small lot subdivision, and the zero lot line subdivision, but they have allowed some, and some of those have
turned out very nice like the one located near Cask 'n Cleaver. He stated they were not opposed to that type
of development but felt they needed to approach it cautiously.
Councilmember Gutierrez stated it is a hard issue, because once people are able to purchase a home in the
City, they start to change their attitude and do not want more growth. He stated there are some tracts in
Windrows that the houses are so tight they are creating a problem and he did not know how long they would
last. He stated he has a problem with the Moreno Valley concept because they grew so fast it has gotten out
of control and he did not want that to happen here.
Mayor Alexander stated a lot of it has to do with how people maintain the properties, which they did not have
control over.
Commissioner Tolstoy stated another dimension to be considered is that in Rancho Cucamonga, the residents
have more amenities than in other cities because those cities have not been willing to spend the money on
them, and that was why land values were higher here.
City Council/Planning Commission
Joint Meeting Minutes
May 30, 1995
Page 5
Commissioner Lumpp stated there were probably a lot of developers that would like to build in Rancho
Cucamonga, but the problem for them is that the City has certain values and standards, so the affordability of
the home will be different than in another area. The other thing that is important is that there are changes
occurring in the industff and in planning a neighborhood. The Commission is looking at bringing the community
back to the front of the house by providing porches and garage setbacks so that people are aware of what is
going on in their neighborhoods again. He stated they have given that direction to one developer to look into
that concept. He stated all of these things have to play into the economics, and Rancho Cucamonga is not
necessarily a community for first time homebuyers. It may not fit within that realm and people may have to go
somewhere else to find housing within the $80,000 to $100,000 level.
Chairman Barker stated Pete Pitassi has designed the Northtown affordable housing project to have some of
these features mentioned by Commissioner Lumpp, such as detached garages and porches which give it more
of a community feel. He felt it was interesting that developers tell them they cannot afford to build an affordable
project, yet the City is able to do so with the features they would find desirable in a small lot project. He stated
he is looking forward to seeing the finished project.
Councilmember Biane stated his intent was not to have Rancho Cucamonga become like Moreno Valley or
Rialto, but he did not think that everyone wanted to live on a half acre lot in a 5,000 square foot home. He
stated he likes what has been done so far, but thought when they look at developing what is left they might want
to look at other alternatives.
Commissioner McNiel stated there was still a large land mass left to be developed, and that most of it was
zoned for a traditional lot size.
Brad Buller, City Planner, stated the Etiwanda North Specific Plan has large lots of 7,200 square feet
designated for the Etiwanda area. In Victoria there are lots with multi-family zoning, and Terra Vista still has
areas left for small lots.
Commissioner McNiel stated most developers will try to have the smallest lot with the biggest house possible
on it.
Commissioner Lumpp stated he is not opposed to looking at a plan even if it is in different zoning because that
ensures flexibility, but it would have to meet the design standards of Rancho Cucamonga. He stated if they
bring people back to the front of the house, it brings protection back to the neighborhood.
Councilmember Curatalo asked if a developer comes to Planning and wants to build a project that meets the
zoning, say four houses per half acre, as long as he meets that requirement, does he have the latitude to do
want he wants, or position them the way he wants.
Brad Buller, City Planner, stated the Development Code is written with density ranges, and to qualify for a
density range the developer has to show that the houses will fit, but the Planning Commission likes to see that
the development meets the City's standards on the setback, architectural style, etc., and that is what Design
Review is for. He explained how the Etiwanda Specific Plan was different.
Chairman Barker stated they also have to look at the developer's long-term interest in the project. Developers
that stay in the community, such as Lewis Homes, build up a certain trust factor, but when it is a new developer
they have to be careful that they do not build a substandard project.
Councilmember Gutierrez stated he would be very interested in taking a tour as discussed earlier.
City Council/Planning Commission
Joint Meeting Minutes
May 30,1995
Page 6
Brad Buller, City Planner, stated he would try to organize a trip towards the end of summer, early fall for the
Council and Commission to go on.
Councilmember Gutierrez left the meeting at 6:00 p.m.
B4. DISCUSSION OF COMMERCIAL LAND USE AND MARKET STUDY (Continued from April 25, 1995
joint meeting)
Brad Buller, City Planner, stated they sent out seven Requests for Qualifications, and all seven were returned.
They narrowed those down to three that they thought were competent and capable. Staff called the references,
and they also put together a refined scope of services and came up with what is before you now. He stated
staff is confident the proposed scope of services is what the Commission and Council asked for, and they will
be ready to come back to the City Council with a contract at the June 21 st meeting. He stated they were able
to reach an understanding with one of the candidates to do the work for under $50,000; one was over, and the
other did the market fiscal study for the Mills Project, which they felt might bias their opinion. Thus it was his
recommendation to continue negotiations with Agajanian and Associates for the project, adding that they also
conducted the trails implementation plan for the city. He recommended the Council and Commission get any
further questions or comments to him in the next seven days and he would try to answer them or include them
in the study. He felt this study will provide a tool to the City for the next 10-15 years.
Councilmember Biane asked for other references on Agajanian and Associates.
Brad Buller, City Planner, stated he did similar studies for the City of Highland, Culver City, and Walnut, and
he contacted each city and they all said he did excellent work and they would hire him again. He stated they
also did the fiscal impact analysis for the General Dynamics project.
Mayor Alexander stated he would like to see staff bring back a contract for the Council's approval.
Chairman Barker felt if staff was comfortable with the consultant, they he would be inclined to go ahead with
them.
Brad Buller, City Planner, stated he and Chairman Barker will be meeting with the Chamber of Commerce
tomorrow to get their input since they have offered their assistance in this project. He added that Agajanian
and. Associates is aware of their tight timeline and are willing to work with them to meet that.
C. COMMUNICATIONS FROM THE PUBLIC
No communications were made by the public.
D. ADJOURNMENT
MOTION: Moved by McNiel, seconded by Lumpp to adjourn to May 31, 1995 at 4:00 p.m. in the Rains
Conference Room of the CMc Center, located at 10500 Civic Center Drive, to discuss Conditional Use Permit
95-11 - Western Land Properties. Motion carried unanimously, 4-0-1 (Melcher absent).
City Council/Planning Commission
Joint Meeting Minutes
May 30, 1995
Page 7
MOTION: Moved by Curatalo, seconded by Biane to adjourn to June 1, 1995 at 5:00 p.m. for a Budget
Workshop to be held in bhe Td-Communities Conference Room, located at 10500 Civic Center Drive, Rancho
Cucamonga, California. Mo~jon carried unanimously, 4-0-1 (Williams absent). The meeting adjourned at 6:15
p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Jan Sutton
Deputy City Clerk
Approved by Planning Commission: July 12, 1995
Approved by City Council: July 19, 1995