HomeMy WebLinkAbout1994/10/18 - Workshop Minutes - PC-HPCCITY OF RANCHO CUCAMONGA
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
Adjourned Meeting
October 18, 1994
Chairman Barker called the Adjourned Meeting of the City of Rancho Cucamonga
Planning Commission to order at 5:35 p.m. The meeting was held in the Rains Room
at Rancho Cucamonga Civic Center, 10500 Civic Center Drive, Rancho Cucamonga,
California.
ROT.!. CALl,
COMMISSIONERS:
PRESENT:
David Barker, Larry McNiel, Peter Tolstoy, John
Melcher, Heinz Lumpp
STAFF PRESENT:
Brad Buller, City Planner; Dan Coleman, Principal Planner;
Nancy Fong, Senior Planner; Betty Miller, Associate Engineer
O~PNER/DEVELOPER:
Rick Mager, Lewis Homes; Tom Delaquila, Lewis Homes; Chuck
Beecher, Lewis Homes; Jim Keisker, Keisker & Wiggle
Architects, Inc.; Robert McClendon, Best Buy; Tom Gyulay, Best
Buy; David Goehring, Best Buy; Berry Rosenberg, William Paul
& Co.
DIRECTOR'S REPORTS
A. TOWN CENTER SOUARE UNIFORM SIGN PROGRAM - WESTERN LAND PROPERTIES
Vice-Chairman McNiel arrived at 5:40 p.m.
Nancy Fong, Senior Planner, presented the staff report.
Chuck Beecher, Lewis Homes, described the proposed sign program.
Chairman Barker requested that the applicant respond to the Commission's question
from the meeting of October 12, 1994, as to the reason for not extending the
same Terra Vista Town Center's name to this project.
Rick Mager, Lewis Homes, responded that the current lease agreement with Target
and Mervyn's prohibit the expansion of Terra Vista Town Center; therefore, they
have to use a different name for the center. He felt that the name of "Town
Center Square" projects an extension of Terra Vista Town Center without violating
the lease agreement.
Tom Delaquila, Lewis Homes, indicated that the site monument signs follow the
design concept of Terra Vista Town with subtle variation. From the experiences
of Terra Vista Town Center, they felt that the site monument signs are a bit too
low; therefore, they have raised the height of the monument signs up to a maximum
of 6 feet for this project.
Commissioner Melcher asked if the applicant has detailed plans to show the
placement of the project identification monument signs, the placement of the
project/tenant identification monument sign within the proposed landscape median,
the setback of the monument signs from the property lines, the treatment of the
monument walls behind the sign, the transition of the angle of the monument walls
to the parallel wall, etc.
Mr. Delaquila stated that monument signs are shown on the conceptual plan but
they have not prepared detailed plans that show the information requested. He
stated that he agreed to staff's recommendation of providing a minimum of 2 feet
of landscaping area at each end of the monument sign wings for the project/tenant
identification monument sign. He indicated the monument walls are stuccoed on
both sides with a concrete cap and landscaping will be planted behind the
monument signs.
Commissioner Melcher asked Mr. Delaquila the type of lighting proposed for the
project/tenant identification monument signs.
Mr. Delaquila explained the type of lighting proposed is recessed cove lighting.
Both Commissioners Barker and Tolstoy emphasized that the light source must be
concealed.
Brad Buller, City Planner, clarified that the light fixtures are recessed
underneath the pre-cast concrete cap.
It was the consensus of the Commission that the project identification monument
signs (A-1 and A-2 Sign Types) are acceptable; however, detailed plans for the
proposed project/tenant identification monument sign together with the proposed
landscape median must be provided for Commission review in conjunction with
review of the driveway entry on Foothill Boulevard.
Mr. Beecher stated that the next issue was the Best Buy sign.
Chairman Barker stated that the proposed Best Buy sign is bigger than what the
Commission had expected when they conceptually approved the center.
Vice Chairman McNiel asked if alternative design were available for review
tonight.
David Goehring, Best Buy, answered that they had not provided alternative
designs. He continued to state that this proposed sign is the smallest compared
to the seven stores to be opened on November 11.
Commissioner Tolstoy asked how far the building face is from the street, how big
the letters are, and how big the sign can is.
Mr. Beecher stated that the distance from the street is about 310 feet, the
letter size is 3 feet 6 inches, and the sign is 12 feet 3 inches by 20 feet.
Commissioner Tolstoy indicated that based on information from national studies,
an 8-inch letter can be seen from a distance of 350 feet and a 3-foot letter can
be seen as far away as 1500 feet. He believed that the sign is way too big.
Commissioner Lumpp asked why the sign at the east elevation, consisting of
individual channel letters, is different from the can sign place at the front
entry.
PC Ad3ourned Minutes 2 October 18, 1994
Tom Gyulay, Best Buy, stated that they typically use this type of sign for the
side elevation.
Commissioner Melcher stated that the City has discouraged the use of can signs
and that the only can sign approved recently is the Ralph's sign. He asked the
size of the Ralph's sign and how far away it is from the street.
Mr. Beecher replied that the sign is 15 feet by 5 feet 8 inches and is about 400
feet away from the intersection of Milliken Avenue and Base Line Road.
Commissioner Melcher noted that the Ralph's sign is treated with pre-cast
concrete molding around the oval can which provides some architectural relief.
Mr. Mager recalled that the Commission was shown the ticket can sign for the Best
Buy early in the review process.
The recollection of the Commission was that signs were never discussed during
the review process to date and that the only sign review has been with the
elevations of Best Buy which only showed a 10 x 16 foot sign space.
Mr. Buller informed the Commission that Lewis Homes had shown a typical sign for
Best Buy to staff and the Commission at the Pre-Application Review Workshop. He
stated that because Best Buy is the major anchor for the center and the ticket
sign is their registered trademark, typically staff would support such a sign.
He said the issue for staff is the size and placement of the sign on the
building.
Mr. Gyulay stated that this is the smallest sign Best Buy has.
Mr. Buller asked Mr. Gyulay whether the proposed sign (12 by 20 feet) is the
smallest one in this area.
Mr. Gyulay stated that the smallest sign in this area is in Mission Viejo and is
about 160 square feet with a dimension of 10 by 16 feet. He continued that the
building in Mission Viejo is smaller with a smaller storefront.
Mr. Buller suggested that the Commission should concentrate on discussing the
size, placement, and the color of the sign.
Commission Tolstoy indicated that although he didn't like the yellow color, he
could accept it because it is a registered trademark. He objected to the size
of the sign.
Mr. Gyulay asked the letter size for Service Merchandise.
Ms. Fong answered that the letter "S" is 6 feet.
Commission Melcher asked whether the sign can is tilted up or down.
Mr. Gyulay stated that it is tilted up.
Commissioner Melcher thought the sign tilted up at an angle is acceptable if the
building face area can support the sign proportionately.
Chairman Barker felt the sign tilted at a angle looks better.
PC Adjourned Minutes 3 October 18, 1994
Commissioner Melcher suggested that the sign can overhang down to the pre-cast
concrete trim.
Vice-Chairman McNiel stated that the size of the sign and the field of the yellow
color create an overpowering sign which violates the Sign Ordinance Design
Standards. He stated he could not support the proposed sign.
Both Chairman Barker and Commissioner Lumpp indicated they still questioned the
reason for the two types of sign for Best Buy - the ticket can sign and the
individual channel letters sign.
Mr. Goehring responded that Best Buy has a hierarchy of signs, and the individual
channel letters sign is considered as secondary signage.
Commissioner Lumpp stated that he could accept the colors and the letter style,
however he felt the proposed sign looks cheap and does not fit in to the image
of Rancho Cucamonga and suggested that consideration be given to a raised letter
on the can sign.
Mr. Buller suggested the following modifications to the can sign: design it to
look more like a price tag by recessing the can sign return and painting the
recessed portion to match the stucco color, having the sign face bleed over the
pre-cast concrete trim, and adding raised letters.
Commissioner Melcher asked if the grey tone of the letters would stay.
Mr. Gyulay stated that the letters will be all black.
Chairman Barker suggested that the commission provide some direction to staff and
the applicant. He stated he would like to get consensus from the Commission for
the following items with regards to the can sign.
1. Size:
Commissioner Melcher stated that accepting this can sign would mean lowering
the quality of signs in the City and would set a precedent for other centers
or box users.
Vice-Chairman McNiel stated if he has to accept this can sign, he could only
accept the smallest size which is 10 by 16 feet.
Chairman Barker and Commissioners Lumpp and Tolstoy indicated they prefer
a smaller sign with the dimensions of 11 by 17 feet.
It was the consensus of the Commission that the applicant look at a sign
size that is less than 200 square feet.
2. Pop-out Letters:
The Consensus of the Commission was to have pop-out letters between I and
i 1/2 inches.
PC Adjourned Minutes 4 October 18, 1994
3. Placement:
Allow the sign to overhang to the pre-cast trim above the entry and attempt
to achieve an equal balance of space between the overhang and the distance
from the top of the sign to the cornice element above the sign.
The consensus of the Commission was to accept these features.
Chairman Barker asked the Commission to respond to the secondary sign at the east
elevation.
Commissioner Melcher stated that the sign is placed at the north end of the east
elevation which is closest to the residences at the northeast corner of Church
Street and Elm Avenue. He felt that this sign is too big and also questioned the
need for it
Mr. Mager stated that the placement of this sign is incorrectly shown and that
it is to be placed at the south end of the east elevation instead.
It was the consensus of the Commission that they did not see the need for this
sign; however if one is to be placed on the east elevation, the sign should be
smaller. The Commission directed the applicant to submit revised plan for their
review. The Commission also put on record that the acceptance of this can sign
is because Best Buy is the largest tenant in the center and the sign is a
nationally registered trademark and that it should not be considered as
precedent setting for other users in this center or elsewhere.
Moved by Lumpp, seconded by Tolstoy, carried 5-0 to continue Town Center Square
Uniform Sign Program to October 26, 1994.
Brad Buller asked if the Commission would consider having a Terra Vista Community
Plan workshop on the October 26, 1994, Planning Commission agenda in addition to
the Sign Program review.
The Commission agreed to a Terra Vista Community Plan workshop on October 26,
1994.
PUBLIC COMMENTS
There were no public comments at this time.
ADJOURNMENT
The meeting adjourned at 8:00 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Brad Bullet
Secretary
PC Adjourned Minutes 5 October 18, 1994