HomeMy WebLinkAbout1993/06/09 - Minutes - PC-HPCCITY OF RANCHO CUCAMONGA
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
Regular Meeting
June 9, 1993
Chairman McNiel called the Regular Meeting of the City of Rancho Cucamonga
Planning Commission to order at 7:00 p.m. The meeting was held in the Council
Chamber at Rancho Cucamonga Civic Center, 10500 Civic Center Drive, Rancho
Cucamonga, California. Chairman McNiel then led in the pledge of allegiance.
ROLL CALL
COMMISSIONERS:
PRESENT:
Suzanne Chitiea, Larry McNiel, John
Melcher (arrived 7:40 p~m.) Peter Tolstoy,
Wendy Vallette
ABSENT: None
COUNCIL MEMBERS:
PRESENT:
Bill Alexander, Rex Gutierrez
STAFF PRESENT:
Brad Buller, City Planner; Dan Coleman, Principal
Planner; Bob Corcoran, Deputy Fire Chief; Ralph Crane,
Deputy Fire Marshal; Nancy Fong, Senior Planner; Rick
Gomez, Community Development Director; Ralph Hanson,
Deputy City Attorney; Anthea Hartig, Associate Planner;
Steve Hayes, Associate Planner; Joe Henry, Police
Lieutenant; Dan James, Senior Civil Engineer; Jack Lam,
City Manager; Steve Ross, Assistant Planner; Gail
Sanchez, Planning Commission Secretary; Bruce Zeiner,
Police Captain
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ANNOUNCEMENTS
Brad Buller, City Planner, announced that a Route 30 meeting was set for
June 15 at 10:00 a.m. In response to his question, it was determined that
Commissioners Tolstoy and Melcher would be attending the meeting.
Mr. Buller noted that at the end of tonight's meeting he would like to discuss
a proposal for a use at the Thomas Winery complex.
A. PRESENTATION OF 1993 AWARDS FOR DESIGN EXCELLENCE
Chairman McNiel and Commissioner Chitiea presented the 1993 Awards for Design
Excellence.
APPROVAL OF"MINUTES
Motion: Moved by Tolstoy, seconded by Chitiea, carried 4-0-1 with Melcher
absent, to adopt the minutes of the Adjourned Meeting of May 5, 1993, as
amended.
Motion: Moved by Vallette, seconded by Tolstoy, carried 4-0-1 with Melcher
absent, to adopt the minutes of May 12, 1993.
Motion: Moved by Chitiea, seconded by McNiel, carried 2-0-1-2 with Melcher
absent and Tolstoy and Vallette abstaining, to adopt the minutes of May
26, 1993.
Consent Calendar
B. TIME EXTENSION FOR TENTATIVE TRACT 14207 - HWANG - A residential
subdivision and design review of 28 single family lots on 19.8 acres of
land in the Very Low Residential District (less than 2 dwelling units per
acre), located on Wilson Avenue, west of Beryl Street, south of Heritage
Park - APN: 1062-051-01. Related files: Variance 91-03 and Tree Removal
Permit 91-05.
C. TIME EXTENSION FOR VARIANCE 91-03 - HWANG - A request to reduce the
minimum corner lot width from 100 feet to 90 feet and the minimum lot
area from 20,000 square feet to 14,502 square feet on Lot 28; to reduce
the minimum lot depth from 150 feet to 146.19 feet and 145.75 feet on
Lots 11 and 14, respectively; and to reduce the minimum average lot size
from 22,500 square feet to 22,228 square feet within Tentative Tract
14207, consisting of 28 single family lots on 19.8 acres of land in the
Very Low Residential District (less than 2 dwelling units per acre),
located on Wilson Avenue, west of Beryl Street, south of Heritage Park -
APN: 1062-051-01. Related files: Variance 91-03 and Tree Removal Permit
91-05.
D. TIME EXTENSION FOR CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 90-20 - ARROYO DE LOS OSOSo LTD.
- The development of 17.04 acres for a mixed office/commercial master
plan, consisting of 11 office/retail buildings totaling 190,950 square
feet with Phase i development consisting of 6 two-story office/retail
buildings totaling 113,450 square feet on 3.21 acres of land in the
Specialty Commercial District (Subarea 1) of the Foothill Boulevard
Specific Plan, located on the north side of Foothill Boulevard between
Baker Avenue and Red Hill Country Club Drive - APN: 207-101-13, 16, 24,
25, and 41. Related files: Tentative Parcel Map 13962 and Tree Removal
Permit 91-19.
E. TIME EXTENSION FOR TENTATIVE PARCEL MAP 13962 - ARROYO DE LOS OSOS, LTD. -
A subdivision of 17.04 acres of land into 8 parcels in the Specialty
Commercial District (Subarea 1) of the Foothill Boulevard Specific Plan,
located on the north side of Foothill Boulevard between Baker Avenue and
Red Hill Country Club Drive - APN: 207-101-13, 16, 24, 25, and 41.
Related files: Conditional Use Permit 90-20 and Tree Removal Permit
91-19.
Planning Commission Minutes -2- June 9, 1993
Motion: Moved by Chitiea, seconded by Tolstoy, to adopt the Consent
Calendar. Motion carried by the following vote:
AYES:
NOES:
ABSENT:
COMMISSIONERS:
COMMISSIONERS:
COMMISSIONERS:
CHITIEA, MCNIEL, TOLSTOY, VALLETTE
NONE
MELCHER -carried
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STREET NAME CHANGE 92-03 - CITY OF RANCHO CUCAMONGA - A request to change
the street names "Mountainview Drive, .... Mountainview Way," and
"Mountainview Place" to "Snow Creek Drive, .... Snow Ridge Way," and "Snow
View Place," respectively within the Mulberry Place development located at
the northwest corner of Vineyard Avenue and Arrow Route.
Steve Ross, Assistant Planner, presented the staff report.
Chairman McNiel opened the public hearing.
Scott Melendrez, 8464 Mountainview Place, Rancho Cucamonga, stated a letter
had been sent from the Mulberry Place Homeowner's Association in October. He
asked for a chronology of events as to why the street name was not changed
sooner. He questioned why their street name was being changed instead of the
other Mountainview Drive. He noted that there are apartment buildings but no
private residences on the other Mountainview Drive, and he felt apartment
dwellers move more frequently so they would not be as affected by the street
name change. He asked if the' City would accept claims from residents for the
expenses incurred by homeowners to change their street name on such things as
checks, stationery, labels, and the records of all their correspondents.
Cynthia Peacock, 8855 Mountainview Drive, Rancho Cucamonga, stated she had
recently been elected President of the homeowner's association at Mulberry
Place. She noted the homeowner's association had recently incurred expenses
to comply with fire lane changes which the builder had failed to do and noted
that homeowners felt they should not have to incur additional costs for the
street name changes. She felt the costs would represent an undue hardship to
some of the residents. She noted that one resident had supported the change
and stated that most residents preferred to maintain their current street
names but supported the new names if a change is to be made.
Hearing no further testimony, Chairman McNiel closed the public hearing.
Mr. Ross stated that both streets had received approval for the name
"Mountainview Drive" in the late 1970s. He said that one street was approved
by the County prior to incorporation and the records were spotty, but it
appeared approval for the other was given right after the City was
incorporated. He reported the Fire District had contacted him with a request
that one of the streets be renamed. Me said he had contacted the residents of
Mulberry Place and gave them an opportunity to comment. He stated he had
received a response noting the cost and inconvenience and he had explained the
reasons for the needed change. He affirmed that staff felt the change should
be made at Mulberry Place because of the size of the street and reported that
Planning Commission Minutes -3- June 9, 1993
Mountainview Drive in Terra Vista is a major street. He also noted that while
there are no homes on the other Mountainview Drive, a change would affect
approximately 400 apartments and he commented that apartment dwellers are also
City residents.
Chairman McNiel asked the time frame for the proposed change.
Mr. Ross replied that the post office would be notified immediately to change
their computers, after which time either address would be acceptable for a
two-year period. He felt that should be sufficient time for residents to have
used up their supplies of checks, stationery, etc.
Commissioner Vallette felt it would be best to affect the fewest number of
residents. She felt the change is unfortunate but necessary for safety
reasons.
Commissioner Chitiea agreed it would be appropriate to change the street names
in Mulberry Place.
Motion: Moved by Chitiea, seconded by McNiel, to adopt the resolution
approving Street Name Change 92-03. Motion carried by the following vote:
AYES:
NOES:
ABSENT:
COMMISSIONERS:
COMMISSIONERS:
COMMISSIONERS:
CHITIEA, MCNIEL, TOLSTOY, VALLETTE
NONE
MELCHER -carried
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Chairman McNiel invited Gaylaird Christopher, Wolff/Lang/Christopher
Architects, to introduce dignitaries from the Coyote Canyon Schools, who had
arrived late to receive their 1993 Design Excellence Award. The Coyote Canyon
School Board presented the City with a copy of an award they had received from
the Inland Empire Design Institute which also recognized the City Planning
Division.
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Commissioner Melcher arrived.
ENTERTAINMENT PERMIT 91-04 - BACKWATERS - A consideration to modify,
suspend, or revoke an entertainment permit granted for the following
entertainment uses: disc jockey doing vocals, playing records, and
videos; live acts such as comedy, magic, dancing, and fashion shows; live
bands (5 members or less); lip syncing; special promotions such as talent
night contests, promoting sports teams, major sports events through
satellite TV, college bowl, and trivia questions contests, in conjunction
with a restaurant and bar, located at 10877 Foothill Boulevard -
APN: 208-351-75. (Continued from May 12, 1993.)
Nancy Fong, Senior Planner, presented the staff report and a copy of an
agreement provided by John Mannerino regarding parking at Laurel Aspen. She
discussed the plan submitted by Backwaters. She remarked the plan should
Planning Commission Minutes -4- June 9, 1993
include specific steps that would be taken by the security guards to prevent
loitering in the parking lot, especially for those patrons who have been
turned away. She noted that the applicant proposed valet service, but did not
indicate if they plan full valet service or merely someone directing cars to
specific areas. She stated the police had recently observed cars being parked
between the drive aisles. She disclosed that the original approval calls for
the applicant to submit any valet parking plans to the City for approval prior
to being put in place.
Chairman McNiel commented that the item had been continued and the public
hearing was still open.
John Mannerino, Mannerino & Briguglio, 9333 Base Line Road, Suite 110, Rancho
Cucamonga, stated that Backwaters had not been given any guidelines as to how
to prepare their plan. He reported that Mr. Bean had met with Deputy Fire
Marshal Ralph Crane and then presented what they thought was a very
comprehensive plan. He said they did not realize they had to address
hypothetical scenarios in the plan, such as what would be done if people would
not leave when they are told to do so. He felt such points could easily be
addressed and reflected in the plan. He said they have not engaged in valet
parking, but they have undertaken a plan allowing them to park each car on the
parking lot at Backwaters without blocking any fire lanes by directing the
patrons where to park. He did not feel it would be necessary to engage in
valet parking, but noted they would make an application to the City prior to
doing so. He noted that he had presented a letter of intent, agreed to by Mr.
Richards, permitting Backwaters to park on the Laurel Aspen lot with
Backwaters providing security and valet parking. He said he did not feel it
would be necessary. He said they had made substantial efforts in order to
rectify the concerns raised at the previous Planning Commission meeting. He
noted that the staff report referred to advertising signs being posted within
the City and stated that at the previous meeting concerns had been raised
about posting advertising signs only outside of the City. He said Mr. Bean
has agreed to stop the posting of illegal signs within the City even though
there are at least four other establishments in the City who engage in the
same practice. He said he had reported at the last Planning Commission
meeting that a liaison had been selected by the Police Department but he noted
that the liaison had not been available on Sunday evenings because it is his
night off. He said the Police Department has now indicated they will appoint
an individual who works on Sunday evenings, as that seems to be the night with
the most problems. He asked that Ralph Crane advise his impression of fire
and safety matters and his experience with Backwaters.
Ralph Crane, Deputy Fire Marshal, noted that the staff report included a
memorandum from the Fire Protection District regarding the District's contacts
with Backwaters. He said the staff at Backwaters has met the Fire District's
requirements with relation to the building and fire protection equipment on
site. He said there have been very few occurrences compared to the prior two
tenants and other tenants of the same type of occupancy.
Brad Buller, City Planner, asked that Mr. Crane indicate the widths and
location of the fire lanes.
Planning Commission Minutes -5- June 9, 1993
Mr. Crane showed the fire lanes extending along the southern side of the
parking lot and north along the drive aisle immediately east of the
building. He indicated they are 26 feet wide. He commented they had just
been informed yesterday that parking was occurring in a non-standard manner in
the other parking aisles. He said he had not had an opportunity to research
the files to find out what the original approval called for in terms of fire
lanes to determine if any other drive aisles were included. He did not feel
any other aisles should be required for access although he thought it may have
been required because the distance of the dead end portion is 163 feet, which
is 13 feet beyond the 150-foot maximum. He said it is not unusual for the
Fire Department to allow a small leeway in the maximum distance. He indicated
the drive aisle on the west side of the building is not a fire lane, but they
would have to be able to hand-carry hoses through the area.
Clotelia Riddell, 6935-B Doheny Place, Rancho Cucamonga, stated she had moved
to the area for affordable housing and a more laid-back lifestyle. She noted
the community has grown, meaning diversity. She also felt that there has been
an influx of elements from distant communities who come to reap crime and
havoc before escaping back to their communities. She stated she enjoys
diversity in music, but felt Backwaters should perhaps limit some of the types
of music and age of their patrons to establish a compromise with the residents
and City. She did not feel the Backwaters should lose their entertainment
permit or be forced to become a country western club. She asked that any
problems be addressed if Backwaters is violating any rules which are contrary
to the health and safety of the community.
Mr. Mannerino introduced Terry Wood from radio station 92.3 The Beat.
Terry Wood, 75270 Selton Street, stated she works with K-KBeat radio
station. She said they are one of the top radio stations in the market and
are owned by one of the top broadcast groups in the country. She said she
heard concerns that because they are a Los Angeles station, they are
attracting listeners from other areas. She stated they operate from Santa
Barbara to San Diego to San Bernardino and are one of the primary stations in
the San Bernardino area. She noted their advertisers include clubs in Los
Angeles and Orange County and she did not feel that people from Los Angeles
come to Rancho Cucamonga to go to a club because there are so many clubs in
the Los Angeles area. She also noted that the main concern appears to be
Sunday evening's entertainment and stated that Backwaters has never promoted
Sunday evenings on their radio station. She said they are a very respected
radio station in the area and like doing business with Backwaters because they
have never had any problems with them. She observed they had recently done a
remote broadcast from Backwaters and received positive feedback from the
residents of the community.
Mr. Mannerino introduced Art Bean, General Manager of Backwaters.
Art Bean, Backwaters, Backwaters, 10877 Foothill Boulevard, Rancho Cucamonga,
stated he had met with Ralph Crane to work out details of crowd control and
fire and safety and he felt Mr. Crane was very happy with the way Backwaters
is handling business. He stated the program outlines how they operate their
business. He thought the plan is clear so far as the positions and what
Planning Commission Minutes -6- June 9, 1993
individual jobs entail. He said he had not had an outline of what the City
was looking for in the plan and he was confused when he was asked to define a
manager and was told that his operating procedure was vague and weak. He felt
it is clear that the manager's responsibility is to ensure the safety of the
all the patrons, from the time a vehicle pulls into the parking lot until they
leave. Me said he employs an outside security firm to secure the parking area
and when they have asked people to leave, they have generally left. He felt
they handle their business well. He stated there may be times when they will
receive last minute notice that big-name stars would like to come and sign
autographs and said he would notify the Planning Division and Fire and Police
Departments as soon as possible, but they would not be able to give the normal
seven-day notice. He said without entertainment, they would be out of
business. He asked that the Commission ask any questions where they may feel
the plan is vague.
Commissioner Vallette noted that signage had been discussed at the previous
Planning Commission meeting and she pointed out that signs were posted in the
City.
Mr. Bean replied they had not posted any posters either in Rancho Cucamonga,
Pomona, or Upland after receiving a phone call from each of their Police
Departments.
Commissioner Vallette noted there had been two reported instances where
security personnel employed by Backwaters had failed to appear in court and
the cases had to be dismissed.
Mr. Bean stated that one of their security officers had received notice to
appear in court and that security officer stated he had gone to court.
Commissioner Vallette asked about the second instance.
Mr. Bean replied that he only knew of one time that any of their security
officers was to appear in court. He said there was no reason why any of his
security personnel would not go to court and stated it is their policy to
press charges if there is a problem requiring police response.
Commissioner Vallette stated she preferred to see such a policy spelled out in
the plan.
Mr. Bean responded that would be acceptable.
Commissioner Melcher felt part of the problem may be a matter of communication
with people who are not in the entertainment business. He said it is
understandable that part of a manager's responsibility is ensuring the safety
of patrons but he felt the plan should outline various procedures which the
manager would use to ensure such safety.
Mr. Bean felt the plan outlines that there is inside and outside security and
stated the manager is in constant radio communication with the security
supervisors. He said he is currently the closing manager every night because
he wants to be sure there are no problems. He said he is linked by radio to
the counters and the security personnel both inside and outside.
Planning Commission Minutes -7- June 9, 1993
Commissioner Melcher commented that it appeared there is a lot of
communication capability built into the plan but he did not see what measures
are taken to be sure a patron is not carrying a concealed weapon.
Mr. Bean agreed that was not spelled out in the plan and said it had not been
included because Mr. Sims had indicated at the last meeting that Backwaters
personnel check IDs, run a metal scanner by the patron, and shine a flashlight
on the patron. He said they use a female security person to check the
women. He said they check for weapons and liquor.
Commissioner Vallette noted that the plan did not spell out the club's policy
when firearms are found.
Mr. Bean responded that the gun would be taken and they are to notify the
Police Department.
Commissioner Vallette noted there have been a number of shooting incidents and
she asked how often weapons have been found.
Mr. Bean replied he thought there was only one situation where a gun was found
and the security officer confiscated the weapon but returned it at the end of
the night. He said that was handled wrong and the security officer had been
dismissed and others understood why.
Commissioner Vallette stated there were a number of unanswered procedural
questions in the plan and she understood staff's frustration in not receiving
the plan sooner so that some of those questions could have been asked sooner.
Mr. Mannerino introduced Michael Sims, owner, and asked that he address the
shooting incident.
Michael Sims, owner of Backwaters, 10877 Foothill Boulevard, Rancho Cucamonga,
stated that since the last Planning Commission meeting, he had tried to figure
out what he can do to please the Planning Commission and Police and Fire
Departments. He said he had decided that maybe only a few people want to see
him closed down and he wanted to change the City's attitude toward
Backwaters. He said he believes in Backwaters and hoped that the
Commissioners would be willing to work with Backwaters. He said he had read
the paper and noticed that there were acts of shooting and violence elsewhere
in the City which are totally unrelated to Backwaters and he was hurt because
he felt that Backwaters is being singled out. He affirmed there had been
three shooting incidents since starting the rhythm and blues night. He said
one of the incidents took place at the medical center and in talking to ten
different witnesses there would be ten different stories. He felt the Police
Department's memorandum makes Backwaters sound like a gangland, but he thought
it was not a realistic picture. He said someone was denied entrance to
Backwaters, went to the medical center located about a block away, and fired
two shots in the air. He said the security guards have told him they were not
fired upon and the guy merely shot in the air when he was angered by not being
allowed in the club and he then waited for the Police arrival. He said
another shooting was at Spires restaurant and he questioned why everyone is
concerned about Spires and not about Backwaters. He noted that people going
Planning Commission Minutes -8- June 9, 1993
to Spires at 2 or 3 a.m. have been out having fun at parties, clubs, or
friends' homes. He did not feel Backwaters people are causing problems at
Spires and if Spires is open that late they must like the business they are
getting. He said that according to the Police Department, two women left
Backwaters and said they were shot at en route to Spires. He stated the
shooters had never been caught and he questioned why that incident was tied to
Backwaters because the shooters had never been in Backwaters. He reported the
final shooting involved two people who pulled into the parking lot, hit each
others' cars, flashed signs, and then shot at each other. He said they were
never in Backwaters. He stated the incidents were all isolated and he abhors
that it happened, but violence does occur. He said being a night club, things
will happen, but that is the exception, not the rule. He said nothing has
happened at Backwaters during the last month, other than the shooting. He
said Captain Zeiner had told him that although there have been no other
occurrences, the Police are concerned about the potential for violence. He
stated that Captain Zeiner had admitted that inside the club there may be no
problems. He expressed a willingness to work with the Police Department to
prevent outside problems. He commented that most of the 18 incidents listed
in the Police memorandum are for misdemeanor or light offenses. He said they
have never had a fight at Backwaters that has lasted more than 10 seconds. He
said that none of the three shootings occurred inside of Backwaters and did
not involve people who had been inside the club.
Commissioner Vallette stated she had reviewed the paperwork from when the
original entertainment permit was issued and at that time Mr. Dennis,
Backwaters' General Manager, had stated that the majority of the problems
experienced in the past had been the result of overcrowding and fights because
of the age level the entertainment attracted and that he wished to raise the
age level of the patrons. She was concerned that most of the problems seem to
be connected with the club's 18-and-over night. She commented that when the
Commission originally approved the entertainment permit, they had been assured
that age levels would be addressed. She asked if Mr. Sims had plans to
address the problem in the future.
Mr. Sims said the Fire District has been there many nights and has found that
they are within code. He acknowledged there had been an overcrowding incident
shortly after they opened, at which time there were 16 people too many. He
said they have since hired more security and done things differently, such as
cutting down on advertising for holiday weekends. He invited the
Commissioners to visit Backwaters. He said that at his last meeting with
Captain Zeiner, he had asked that the Police work with him for a few weeks
regarding Sunday evening's 18-and-over policy to see if he could make it
work. He said he had told Captain Zeiner he would cancel the policy if the
Police did not feel there was any improvement. He did not think there had
been any problems during the last two weeks. He asked that the Commission
allow him to run his business.
Commissioner Tolstoy asked if meals are being served at the restaurant.
Mr. Sims said they had recently closed for remodeling. He indicated they were
trying to determine what would work because they had lost business due to the
adverse publicity they had received. He said he had many letters of support
Planning Commission Minutes -9- June 9, 1993
from residents of Rancho Cucamonga. He stated they are now opening the
restaurant at night to serve breakfast to try to keep the patrons from going
to Spires so that Spires would not complain. He said they plan to open the
restaurant in a couple of a weeks as a fine dining steak house serving steak,
ribs, and chicken.
Commissioner Melcher asked if Mr. Sims had gotten the sense that the Police
Department would work with him for a few weeks.
Mr. Sims replied that every time he has met with Captain Zeiner he has felt
there was a common ground. Me hoped that Chief Zeiner would confirm they were
willing to work together.
Commissioner Melcher noted there had been some comments regarding the lack of
adequacy of the operational plan and he asked if Backwaters was willing to
expand upon the plan if it were possible to work with staff.
Mr. Sims replied that he is willing to go as far as requested and would be
willing to do anything possible to stay in business. He said they have called
the City and Fire and Police Departments to see how they are doing. He wanted
to work it out. He asked for input on the plan. He felt they have constantly
submitted things and been criticized. He remarked they had been trying to get
a sign out front and, although he has worked through three sign companies, he
has been unable to get one. He felt he is a good businessman and runs a clean
club.
Mr. Mannerino reiterated that they are willing to refine the plans upon input
from the City. He acknowledged that the plan was not submitted until June 2,
but stated they had been meeting with Ralph Crane. He said he had the sense
that the Police Department would work with them. He said at the last meeting
they had with Captain Zeiner and Lieutenant Henry, Captain Zeiner had told
them about a circumstance he found unacceptable on the Memorial Day weekend.
He said no one had come into the restaurant to tell them they found anything
unacceptable in the parking lot and that showed there is still a communication
problem. He said he had no doubt that if Captain Zeiner indicates there is a
law enforcement problem because of Backwaters' non-cooperation, that the
Commission would pull the entertainment permit. He said at the same meeting,
Lieutenant Henry indicated there had been no problems last Sunday evening with
a near-capacity crowd. He noted that Sunday evenings seems to be the focus
and he felt Sunday could be made acceptable with an 18-and-over policy. He
recalled that when he was 18, there were no places to go and he felt they
could demonstrate that it will work. He said Captain Zeiner had indicated
that if Backwaters will take care of the people on the property, the Police
would handle the people off the property. He felt there had been some
legitimate criticisms of Backwaters' management during the 18 months they have
been open, but that Backwaters had rectified a lot of the problems. He
requested that the Commission allow Backwaters to refine their plan and retain
the 18 and over night. Me said that if the Commission feels it is necessary
to limit the entertainment permit, that they merely ask that Backwaters
eliminate the 18 and over night.
Planning Commission Minutes -10- June 9, 1993
Commissioner Vallette felt the burden to decide whether to rescind the
entertainment permit does not lie with Captain Zeiner; however, he is
responsible for reporting the facts.
Mr. Mannerino said he understood, but he felt the Commission would ask him for
a recommendation and that recommendation would weigh heavily on the
Commission's judgment.
Robert Hammond, 191 Browning, Upland, stated he was appearing as a patron and
a friend of the owners. He reminded the Commission that he had spoken at the
last meeting. He said that at the last meeting no restrictions had been
placed on Backwaters regarding advertising within Rancho Cucamonga. He said
they should obviously not be posting illegal posters, but they had only been
asked not to advertise out of the county. He commented that details of how
patrons are searched had been explained at the last meeting. He felt the City
does not want the club in the City limits and that is why restrictions have
been placed on the club. He said the City has been trying to drive the club
away by restricting parking everywhere they have parked. He stated that when
the club first opened they had permission from the adjoining property owner to
park on the dirt field behind the club but that permission was very quickly
withdrawn, after which time patrons parked on unposted streets which quickly
became posted even though there are no businesses or buildings on those
streets. He said that cars which park by the abandoned buildings behind the
club are being ticketed even though the area is not posted. He said at one
time the club had permission to park at the hotel, but within a short time
that permission was withdrawn. He said that as each parking area has been
made unavailable, Backwaters has done the best they could to accommodate the
City. He felt that Backwaters is doing a good job because from November 1992
to April 1993 there were only 27 incidents at Backwaters requiring Police
response and 18 of those incidents involved breaking into cars, pilferage, or
vagrant activities. He said he had only been able to determine one incident
where anyone was arrested and charged and that was the incident where the
security guard failed to show up at court. He said there had been only two
instances where Backwaters has called and asked for Police help. He stated
they have handled their own security and the other incidents were merely from
a Police Officer driving by or stopping in. He felt there are attempts to
make Backwaters look bad when they are probably doing the best job of any
night club in Rancho Cucamonga and probably any club in the valley. He
commented that the Fire Department has given Backwaters a clean bill of health
except for the one time there were 16 too many patrons. He said they had a
very clean record from the time they opened until November 1992 when there was
a shooting at Spires and suddenly the City decided Backwaters should be
eliminated. He said things have eased up since the last Planning Commission
meeting with no problems occurring. He felt no one tries harder than
Backwaters to fit into the City. He thought the problems encountered could
easily have been solved in meetings rather than holding a hearing. He
affirmed that Sunday evening is a busy night for Backwaters because there is
nothing else for teenagers to do in the City. He said for the most part, the
teenagers have behaved very well. He commented that in the 18 months
Backwaters has been open, there have been only two driving under the influence
citations issued that could be related to Backwaters and he thought that was a
remarkable record. He felt Backwaters does a good job of policing their
Planning Commission Minutes -11- June 9, 1993
facility and protecting their patrons. He thought it is better to have the
teenagers at Backwaters being supervised than to have them out milling around
the City.
Katrice Williams, 16153 Merrill Avenue, Fontana, stated that as an Afro-
American citizen she was disappointed and outraged at the events which have
taken place over the last few months. She said it is apparent that the City
and its agencies are subtly distorting facts to provoke a desired effect. She
said you can raise a child to be as great as the mind can imagine and that
child can make great contributions to mankind but if the child is raised as a
racist, the parent has failed. She said that if the City leaders raise a
racist City, they have failed and done an injustice to society. She commented
that over a year ago the City of Los Angeles burned because City planners,
mayors, and other leaders failed to correct an unjust situation. She said
that every city in the country deserves to burn until somebody stands up for
what is right. She did not think it would be right to close Backwaters, put
people out of work, and take entertainment away from the community based on
any reason other than it is legitimately unsafe or negligent. She asked that
the City instead work with Backwaters. She said the months she has been at
Backwaters have been more valuable than her college degree because she has
learned a lot about business. She thought it was unfair to close down
Backwaters because of the clientele that they bring to a lily-white city. She
felt the Commissioners could not make a fair decision without visiting the
premises.
Steve Josee, 5919 Cedar Mountain Drive, Rancho Cucamonga, stated he had moved
to the area five years ago because he was impressed with Rancho Cucamonga,
particularly the design requirements as he is an architect. He said he has
seen changes and recent newspaper articles have caused him to be more
concerned about safety in the community. He felt consideration needs to be
given to the safety of residents, continued economic strength, and growth of
the neighborhoods. He felt the Commission needs to determine if Backwaters
has a positive or a negative effect on the community. He said he is the
architect of the Rancho Cucamonga Medical Center and they have had severe
problems following major events at Backwaters, including having all types of
liquor bottles, used condome and underwear, and other items left in their
parking lot, costing them considerable money to have the debris cleaned up.
He said that is also where one of the pistols was found which had been used in
one of the incidents. He felt that if the establishment is causing problems
for the community, it should be addressed. He said he hoped there were no
pressures because of racism, but he felt if there are negative consequences
from a business, perhaps limitations could be placed on the events that can
take place. He said he had been at the restaurant and felt the food was
adequate, well served, and reasonably priced. He said he had gone by in the
evenings and seen the horrendous crowds and the police cars sitting at Rancho
Cucamonga Medical Center observing what is going on. He thought that is a
good idea for safety purposes but he was concerned that it may be taking
Police from other areas of the City, and he felt the taxpayers should not have
to pay to have Police sit there so there will not be problems. He said he
wanted Backwaters to be the best it can be but he did not want to see anything
degrade the community.
Planning Commission Minutes -12- June 9, 1993
Keisha Manns, 9929 La Vine Street, Rancho Cucamonga, stated she has been a
resident of the area for 20 years. She said she had heard there is a group
that is trying to stop businesses from moving out of Rancho Cucamonga to other
areas. She stated that after hearing about the problems Backwaters is having,
she wondered if businesses are not moving out of the City because of the
Planning Commission. She thought that advertising is essential for every
business to survive. She stated she had seen advertising posters on telephone
poles for Sam's Club and Peppers and she did not see why Backwaters cannot
have the same type of advertising. She said there is no profanity or anything
that would incite violence in the advertising posters. She recalled that the
same type of advertising had been used when she was growing up to sell new
home developments and she felt that had been permitted because it was used to
build up a stronger community tax base. She felt that Backwaters was also
providing a tax base for Rancho Cucamonga and the City should be happy there
is a business which wants to stay in Rancho Cucamonga. She said there had
been a comment in a recent newspaper article that the main problem the Police
Department has had is with the type of people that are attracted. She asked
what type of people were referred to. She commented she has only seen well
mannered, respectable people there and she had not seen any Crips or Bloods
step inside the establishment. She said it had been stated at the last
meeting that the Police are worried about the potential of a problem within
the club but asked if the Police are also concerned about the potential of
violence emanating from Peppers. She felt that people go to Peppers only to
drink whereas most people go to Backwaters to listen to the music and dance.
She said the African-American culture does not socialize around beer as is the
case with other cultures. She said generally there are no Police around
Peppers, like there are hanging around Backwaters looking for trouble. She
felt the clients of Peppers are just as likely to be drunk or carry a
concealed weapon. She noted that no one checks patrons at either Peppers or
Sam's Club to be sure there are no concealed weapons. She felt if the City is
concerned about concealed weapons, then a policy should be instituted in all
drinking establishments. She said she had recently gone to Sam's Club and
there were four men who were drunk and started fighting and no cops came. She
said when she goes to Backwaters she normally arrives at 11:00 p.m. and the
Police are already there ticketing people. She thought if the Police are
worried about the potential for violence at clubs, there should be Police at
Sam's and Peppers more than at Backwaters because Backwaters is located by
fields and empty office spaces while Sam's and Peppers are located near
residences. She noted that staff had asked Backwaters what steps would be
taken to be sure that patrons would not drive around and come back and she
asked if staff was also concerned about people driving around Peppers. She
asked why staff would be concerned and felt people have the right to drive
around as much as they want. She noted that some people call the club
"Blackwaters" and she questioned if that was the problem for the City. She
said she preferred to think that the Commission is better than that. She felt
Backwaters is being singled out.
Keibrick Manns, 9929 La Vine Street, Rancho Cucamonga, stated he had lived in
the area before it became a City. He asked that the City stop what they are
doing to Backwaters. He suggested the signs behind Backwaters be changed to
prohibit parking between 9:00 a.m. and 5:00 p.m. only, which would allow
Backwaters' patrons to park on the street at night.
Planning Commission Minutes -13- June 9, 1993
Overy Powers, 1279 Via Contreas, Moreno Valley, stated he had graduated from
Alta Loma High School and attended Chaffey and Claremont Colleges. He said he
works at Backwaters and he sees a lot of security people standing around
waiting for something to happen because nothing is happening. He noted
someone said they had seen beer bottles, condoms, and underwear at the medical
center, but he felt that was only speculation because the Backwaters' people
had not seen any pictures of it and they do not have litter in the Backwaters'
parking lot. He stated the club is one of the best he has been to and it is
run with very tight security. He felt the Sims are breaking their backs to
keep their business and if the entertainment permit were to be pulled, it
would shut them down. He asked if anyone had been found guilty of doing
anything wrong other than the one incident when someone shot in the air
because they were not allowed in the club. He said it is one of the best
atmospheres for entertainment.
Joe Turner, 9601 Hidden Farm, Rancho Cucamonga, stated he is the doorman at
Backwaters. He stated his job entails letting the Police know what is going
on and making sure everyone is checked for their identification and weapons.
He reported he had seen the three incidents that had been discussed. He said
he had turned away the person who left and shot in the air because he did not
like the way the man was dressed and the security personnel had escorted him
off the property. He felt such an incident could happen anywhere. He said he
had never seen anyone come up to the door with a gun or alcohol because the
patrons know they will not be able to enter with such items. He said after
telling people they cannot enter, some of those people have lingered or
returned to the club at closing time and he he has pointed out those people to
the Police and informed them that those people had been refused entrance and
had asked the Police to tell them not to return. He said the Police have
talked to people and those who have been stopped or arrested have not returned
to Backwaters. He hoped that communications could be improved between
Backwaters and the City and he was sure Backwaters would do whatever is
necessary to stay in business.
Mr. Manns said he has a good understanding of local government because a few
of his closest friends are City Planners. He asked that the Commission make
sure that Backwaters is in compliance and then leave them alone unless there
is truly a threat to public safety.
Hearing no further testimony, Chairman McNiel closed the public hearing. He
asked that Captain Zeiner respond to the public testimony.
Bruce Zeiner, Police Captain, referred the Commission to the May 24, 1993,
follow.up report prepared by Lieutenant Henry. He said that in reference to
comments made by several people, the Police have never had a major concern
with how Backwaters runs the inside of their business and are in fact rather
pleased with the way they run the inside. He said the issue has been the kind
of people that are attracted. He noted that the spokesman for the radio
station had stated that people from the Los Angeles area do not come out here
to go to clubs; however, he said the Police had provided copies of citations
issued to people from Irvine, Inglewood, San Juan Capistrano, Hawthorne, and
Pomona. He stated they have also arrested or taken crime reports from Feople
from Duarte, Los Angeles, Pasadena, and Covina. He said he had personally
Planning Commission Minutes -14- June 9, 1993
spoken to people in the parking lot who said they came from Downey and Los
Angeles because there is not as much shooting or violence here as where they
come from. He noted mention had been made about violence in general but he
observed that Backwaters has had multiple occurrences at the same location,
whereas the other incidents mentioned had been spread out in area. He said
Police presence would be increased at other locations if common occurrences of
violence were experienced. He commented that as recently as Sunday, May 23,
there had been an abundance of people appearing to be in the 18 to 20 year age
group parking in the area but unable to get into the restaurant. He said he
had spoken to the security guard on that evening and the security guard had
acknowledged there were too many people in the parking lot but said he did not
have the manpower to do anything about it. He noted that Mr. Bean had
complained that the Police had not contacted him on that evening, but it was
his understanding that the security guards are in contact with the
management. He said that while he was there, they observed people moving the
cones blocking cars from the parking lot and driving in as well as a fight by
two people in front of the building. He said they had addressed those
problems in a subsequent meeting with Backwaters and he understood that this
past Sunday evening there had been no problems. He said there had been
comments about drinking and driving and comments about under-age drinking. He
noted it is difficult to prove where people have been drinking but he said
there have been several incidents of people under 21 who were pulled over for
driving while intoxicated or involved in accidents who claimed they were
drinking at Backwaters. He stated he would prefer not having 18 to 20 year
olds in a bar serving alcohol because even if they are not being served, it
would take an inordinate amount of security guards with 500 patrons to be sure
that minors are not drinking. He said he would like to see their business
work. He felt the issue is not that the business is poorly run, but rather
the impact on the rest of the City. He said he was concerned that an
inordinate amount of Police Officers, in their opinion, need to be present in
the area for parking and potential violence problems. He stated that Bloods
and Crips gang members are attracted to the location even if they are not
permitted inside. He reiterated that the staff of Backwaters have been
amenable to suggestions; however, he felt the problems may continue if the 18
and over policy is not changed. He thought that if the number of people
attracted is reduced, it would help. He noted that once the club reaches
capacity, there are generally 18 to 20 year olds who have been drawn to the
area and have no place to go. He said he was somewhat concerned that a patron
of Backwaters would make a statement that cities who don't do things they
agree with deserve to burn and he would direct his staff to take any steps
necessary to see that that does not occur.
Commissioner Melcher questioned if the type of entertainment advertised draws
not only Bloods and Crips but also a majority of people who are not gang
members.
Captain Zeiner stated the majority of patrons do not appear to be. gang members
of any kind, but he stated the Police have identified Bloods and Crips because
they have either spoken with them or arrested them.
Chairman McNiel asked if Ms. Fong would respond to the public testimony.
Planning Commission Minutes -15- June 9, 1993
Ms. Fong acknowledged that she is not experienced in running a night club and
there had been some confusion with the plan. She stated she had reviewed the
plan submitted to be certain it addressed all of the concerns of the
Commission, particularly in the area of public safety; and after reviewing the
plan, she felt it was vague in some areas. She said she had posed some
questions to Mr. Bean to see if he could give some answers. She stated one of
staff's goals is to maintain open communication with applicants and she had
posed the questions to Mr. Bean because she did not feel the plan adequately
addressed the safety issue. She said she had asked Mr. Bean what steps would
be taken to try to discourage a would-be patron who had been turned away from
parking elsewhere and walking to the night club. She indicated she was just
trying to understand how they operate. She thought Mr. Bean or Mr. Sims
should have contacted staff if they had questions as to how to formulate the
plan to address the seven points which had been raised at the previous
meeting. She said it was unfortunate that the plan had not been submitted
until late on Wednesday June 2, not permitting staff time to review the plan
with the Police and Fire officials prior to assembling the agenda on
Thursday. She reported that staff had approved a sign concept for Backwaters
but she did not think Backwaters had pursued the matter to get building
permits to build the sign.
Mr. Buller noted that comments had been made about the business retention
group and he said it is an ongoing effort of the Planning Division and a
subcommittee of the City Council has been formed to focus on businesses and
business retention in the area. He stated that, with regard to the comments
about real estate signs, the City has always tried to control the illegal
posting of signs throughout the City streets and that the City has made great
strides within the last 6 to 7 years in removing tacked-on illegal signs
within the public right of way. He acknowledged that it is still being done
by the clubs mentioned this evening, and said that unfortunately the staff has
been reduced and cannot keep up. He said upon talking with Backwaters
representatives, they have made what he felt were sincere commitments to not
let it happen in either Rancho Cucamonga or neighboring cities. He stated he
had tried to make it clear that the City's goal is for compliance with all the
conditions of approval for the entertainment permit. He recalled two
instances in which staff had to remind Backwaters that certain conditions were
in place. He said one had to do with using a dance floor before receiving
proper approvals from the Fire District and the other had to do with double
parking prior to finding out if fire lanes were blocked. He hoped that
Backwaters would approach City staff in the future to see how problems can be
solved. He said at his first meeting with Mr. Sims he had indicated that the
biggest planning issue is parking and he had asked that a plan be established
to address that concern.
Commissioner Vallette asked if the frisking policy at Backwaters was at the
City's request.
Mr. Buller responded that it is a self-imposed policy of Backwaters.
Chairman McNiel noted that there had been a comment about the 27 incidents
requiring Police response between November of 1992 and April 1993 and it had
been implied that should be acceptable. He did not feel the City should find
Planning Commission Minutes -16- June 9, 1993
that acceptable or assume a "boys-will-be-boys" mentality because there should
not be a tolerance for such incidents. He stated there had been a comment
about business moving out of Rancho Cucamonga and he noted that companies move
into and out of areas regularly for various reasons. He acknowledged that
there have been signs posted on telephone poles by both Sam's and Peppers but
said the City is doing everything it can to stop that as well. He also noted
there had been another night club where the City held similar meetings to the
one being held tonight in an attempt to have the club address problems which
it was creating for the surrounding community. He said the club was slow in
responding and the permit was ultimately pulled because of the problems. He
stated he had just returned from Sacramento, where he had attended meetings at
which the governor was present to discuss the state budget and the potential
effects on cities and counties. He commented that the City stands to lose
between $800,000 and $8,000,000 which would affect the Police Department, Fire
Department, and all other services. He reported the City has been cutting its
staff over the last three years. He feared that in some instances the Police
Department is being required to provide an inordinate amount of service by
almost placing a Police Officer on site at a time when the money for such
services will potentially be cut. He said there had been some commentary
about potential for violence with respect to Peppers and Sam's Place. He
observed that the Police Department responds to need and the frequency of
calls to Peppers and Sam's has been considerably less than to Backwaters. He
noted a comment had been made about the establishment being called
"Blackwaters" and said that was the first he had ever heard that term. He
felt the term was offensive and unacceptable. He said the Commission was
being asked to made a judgment on whether the business should continue under
its current entertainment permit. He felt the Commission must determine if
the positives outweigh the negatives. He thought there had been
communications between the City and Backwaters for a fair amount of time and
it appeared that when the City had asked for a number of things the response
had been slow.
Commissioner Melcher stated that perhaps Backwaters was a little derelict
about getting the plan submitted, but he had heard Backwaters express a
willingness to continue exploring the question and he had heard Captain Zeiner
state that he hopes Backwaters succeeds. He questioned if the plan should not
be referred back to staff to develop it further with Backwaters and returned
to the Commission when it is ready or when staff feels there is no further
hope of compromise.
Chairman McNiel noted that on May 12 Mr. Mannerino had requested a continuance
of four weeks to prepare and said he had only recently been hired to represent
Backwaters. He observed that a member of City Council said Mr. Mannerino had
contacted him more than a month before the May meeting to discuss the
situation. He thought there had been more than adequate time to prepare and
he felt there had been reluctance to comply until the matter was brought
before the Commission. He questioned how long the Commission should postpone
action. He thought the Commission should now accept staff's recommendation or
reaffirm the conditions of the entertainment permit and if Backwaters does not
comply, the entertainment permit should be rescinded. He felt the previous
continuance was fair but questioned if the matter should be further deferred.
Planning Commission Minutes -17- June 9, 1993
Mr. Mannerino asked if he could readdress the Commission.
Chairman McNiel reopened the public hearing.
Mr. Mannerino stated that the first continuance on the matter was at the
Commission's request and after that he had requested a continuance because he
had recently been retained and the seven-point plan had been prepared in three
weeks.
Chairman McNiel again closed the public hearing.
Commissioner Tolstoy stated he had reviewed the minutes of the original
Planning Commission meeting when the entertainment permit was approved. He
said that the Commission approved the permit after hearing Duane Dennis, the
manager at that time, express a desire to provide an upscale dining
atmosphere. He said Mr. Dennis had stated he thought a majority of the
problems experienced by the former owners were probably due to the age level
of the patrons. He reported Mr. Dennis had indicated the new owner wanted to
provide an atmosphere more conducive to an older clientele and would select
entertainment accordingly. He stated the Commission had granted the
entertainment permit based on those indications. He acknowledged that perhaps
the upscale dining did not work and the 18-and-over night brings in more
patrons, but he thought the conditions have changed and the current permit is
no longer valid because of those changed conditions. He felt the expectation
of City residents is for a safe community and he thought the operation has
drawn people into the community that have caused a situation where the Police
Department has had to spend a lot of time because of incidences which have
occurred. He acknowledged the problems have not occurred inside the club, but
outside, but he felt the problems must be corrected. He thought the
Commission should either revoke the permit and allow Backwaters to apply for a
new entertainment permit with conditions which the Commissioners feel will
alleviate some of the problems or the City should work with Backwaters to
modify the current permit. Me felt Backwaters has been slow to respond to the
problems and he felt things should have been worked out sooner. He thought
there may have been a lack of communication between Backwaters and the City.
He remarked that Backwaters had now come out and made a commendable response
but he questioned why there had not been an earlier response.
Commissioner Chitiea felt that public safety and welfare is the number one
concern as well as making sure that taxpayers in the community are not unduly
burdened with looking after any one business. She said the business had
originally been proposed as a restaurant that would offer entertainment and
she noted the business is no longer functioning specifically as a restaurant
but instead has evolved into a night club. She said she understood that most
of the problems are occurring on Sunday evenings. She thought perhaps the
existing permit could be modified to eliminate the under 21 age limit and
condition the restaurant to be reopened. She suggested a trial three to six
month period to find out if that would result in a significant drop in Police
activity. She did not think the community can afford to expend the money
necessary to police an establishment that attracts the element that is causing
the problems. She said the trial period would give Backwaters an opportunity
to show they can meet very specific standards, but if the problems continued,
Planning Commission Minutes -18- June 9, 1993
she felt the Commission owes it to the residents of the community to remove
the problem.
Commissioner Vallette affirmed that when Mr. Dennis, the original manager,
spoke to the Planning Commission he presented the business to be primarily a
restaurant establishment with entertainment as a secondary use and stated he
wanted to make sure that the types of incidents which had happened with
previous owners would not occur again. She felt that was not the case and the
Commission had grounds to revoke the entertainment permit. She thought health
and safety and the drain on City services are major issues. She acknowledged
that to revoke the permit would be difficult inasmuch as the public testimony
was for the most part in favor of retaining the business. She thought perhaps
Commissioner Chitiea's suggestion would be beneficial.
Commissioner Melcher suggested a finding that the Sunday night entertainment
is not consistent with the entertainment permit and must cease until the
entertainment permit is revised.
Commissioner Chitiea suggested that entertainment might then be moved to
another night of the week. She said there was some questions as to whether
the problem is the entertainment or the age of the crowd. She supported
eliminating one or the other to determine which is the problem.
Commissioner Vallette suggested setting up a subcommittee to work with staff
and the applicant in addressing the issues.
Mr. Buller noted that several proposals had been presented by the
Commission. He suggested the Commission may wish to receive input from the
applicant regarding the potential for temporary suspension of the
entertainment permit for a specific entertainment or a temporary restriction
on the minimum age limit. He thought the applicant realized the Commission
may take more serious action and he thought perhaps the applicant would prefer
an interim step to give them a chance to work with staff and other City
agencies.
Chairman McNiel reopened the public hearing to request comment from the
applicant.
Mr. Mannerino requested a few minutes to talk with his client.
The Planning Commission recessed from 10:23 p.m. to 10:30 p.m.
Mr. Mannerino stated he had spoken to Mr. Bullet during the recess, and he
suggested one of two proposals. He requested that they be permitted to
operate for eight weeks under the existing permit to allow them to demonstrate
that they could successfully handle 18 and over Sunday evenings with a review
scheduled at the end of the eight-week period. He thought they could work
with staff and a subcommittee during that period to further clarify the
plan. He requested an alternative of allowing them a two-week period to
advise the 18 to 20 year olds that their policy was switching over to a
minimum age of 21 and then have the applicant work with staff and the
subcommittee during the following eight weeks to conceive a plan that would be
Planning Commission Minutes -19- June 9, 1993
acceptable for returning to the 18-and-older format. He said they would
obviously like the opportunity to demonstrate they can operate the Sunday
evening entertainment for 18 and over without any undue Police burden or
public safety hazard.
Commissioner Chitlea asked if the applicant was willing to consider
eliminating the 18 to 20 year old group for a three-month period.
Mr. Mannerino said if the restriction is imposed, they would have to live with
it. He thought three months is a long time and he felt two months would be
sufficient.
Chairman McNiel felt the main problem is the 18 to 20 year olds.
Mr. Mannerino remarked that it was also the most profitable night because
those under 21 have no other places to go.
Chairman McNiel did not feel it was reasonable to expect the community to be
placed in jeopardy just because it is profitable.
Mr. Mannerino suggested they be given two weeks to allow them to advise the
patrons of the change in policy to a minimum age of 21, let them operate for
two months, and then return to the Commission.
Chairman McNiel again closed the public hearing.
Commissioner Chitlea stated she had felt there was a strong possibility that
the permit might be revoked this evening and when she had suggested that the
minimum age be changed, her thought was that it may eliminate the problem and
the burden on the community and the permit might then be continued permanently
under those circumstances. She said it was not her intent to form
subcommittees and take a lot of additional staff time to keep looking at it.
She asked if it would be necessary to revise the entertainment permit in order
to restrict entertainment to age 21 or over.
Mr. Bullet responded that if the hearing were to be continued for three
months, the Planning Commission could establish an interim condition of
restricting entertainment to 21 and up by minute action. He questioned if the
Commission wanted the entertainment restricted all evening or only after a
certain hour.
Commissioner Chitlea felt that further enforcement problems would be caused if
18 to 20 year olds were restricted only after a certain hour.
Commissioner Vallette agreed. She remarked that the original purpose was for
a restaurant, not a night club. She wanted to give them an opportunity to
continue their business but eliminate the problems.
Commissioner Tolstoy felt that Sunday night activities had placed a tremendous
burden on the Police Department. He feared that excluding the 18 to 20 year
olds may cause problems. He thought there should be a way for Backwaters to
compensate the Police Department for the needed Police Officers, such as
Planning Commission Minutes -20- June 9, 1993
having Backwaters hiring some of the off-duty or reserve Police Officers. He
thought that on one evening all of the on-duty Officers had been at Backwaters
and he felt that was a situation the City does not wish to have happen
again. He hoped there was some way to obtain extra officers to take care of
potential problems on Sunday evenings.
Ralph Hanson, Deputy City Attorney, commented that the City does not charge
for police responses; however, if the Commission wished to include a
requirement in the entertainment permit that a uniformed, licensed Police
Officer be present, the City could investigate the matter.
Commissioner Tolstoy stated it was not his intent to have Backwaters pay for
the officers on duty; but he wanted to see the officers on duty out in the
City rather than spending all of their time at Backwaters.
Mr. Hanson stated that was why the City was considering the modification or
revocation of the entertainment permits.
Mr. Buller stated that during the recess he had suggested that a grace period
might be given in order to give Backwaters an opportunity to advise patrons
who attend on a regular basis that the club would no longer be open to 18 to
20 year olds. He thought the grace period would give Backwaters an
opportunity to determine whether problems could be expected once the 18 to 20
year olds are no longer permitted.
Motion: Moved by Chitiea, to continue the matter for three months, with an
understanding that under 21 year olds would be restricted following a two-week
transitional period. She felt the restaurant should be reopened and commented
the entertainment permit was granted with the understanding that the business
was a restaurant which provides entertainment.
Commissioner Vallette asked if there is a specific time frame for Backwaters
to give notification to the Police Department regarding entertainment.
Mr. Buller stated they are to give notice but a specific time frame is not
spelled out.
Commissioner Chitiea agreed that when the matter returns in three months,
there should be a better feeling for what is working.
Commissioner Vallette was concerned that during the three month period there
be proper notification to provide staffing.
Captain Zeiner commented that the Police Department would need more notice
than from a Friday evening to a Saturday, particularly when big name
entertainers may be involved.
Commissioner Vallette felt the establishment may not be appropriate for
drawing top name entertainers. She thought the Sports Complex may be a better
location.
Commissioner Chitiea felt it may be a question of advertising.
Planning Commission Minutes -21- June 9, 1993
Commissioner Vallette thought the time frame for notification should be worked
out between the Police Department and the management of Backwaters and she
suggested that there may even be different time frames for different types of
entertainment.
Commissioner Chitiea felt a written policy could be developed during the
three-month period.
Commissioner Tolstoy asked if the other Commissioners wished to include
anything about additional policing.
Commissioner Vallette stated that she had suggested a subcommittee to identify
and work on the issues, such as additional policing, parking, etc.
Commissioner Chitiea did not feel a subcommittee was necessary.
Chairman McNiel felt that Backwaters must deal with the problems.
Commissioner Vallette felt a subcommittee could give on-going feedback to make
it easier for the management to come up with a satisfactory plan and preclude
their returning with the excuse that they did not know what was expected.
Chairman McNiel felt there would be sufficient feedback from the Police
Department and Planning staff.
Commissioner Vallette felt it would be only a short-term subcommittee and it
would be a matter of good public relations.
Commissioner Melcher asked if Commissioner Chitiea's motion called for a
finding that the existing entertainment permit does not include entertainment
events open to those under 21 years old and the three month continuance would
be to evaluate the remainder of the operation to see if it would be workable
from the standpoint of both the City and the applicant. He thought at the end
of the three month period, the entertainment permit would either be revoked or
the hearing would be concluded with a finding that the restriction on
entertainment for those under 21 years old would remain as a permanent
condition.
Commissioner Chitiea agreed that was the intent of her motion.
Commissioner Melcher seconded the motion.
Mr. Buller noted that three months would continue the matter to September 8.
Chairman McNiel noted the continuance to September 8 would be predicated upon
not experiencing major problems between now and then.
Mr. Buller confirmed the matter could be returned sooner if necessary.
Chairman McNiel reopened the public hearing.
Mr. Mannerino asked for clarification that those under 21 would be permitted
in the restaurant once it reopens.
Planning Commission Minutes -22- June 9, 1993
Chairman McNiel confirmed that the prohibition was only for the night club.
The motion carried by the following vote:
AYES:
NOES:
ABSENT:
COMMISSIONERS:
COMMISSIONERS:
COMMISSIONERS:
CHITIEA, MCNIEL, MELCHER, TOLSTOY
VALLETTE
NONE -carried
Chairman McNiel commented that he wants the business to do well but he does
not want the community to suffer as a result of what occurs there. He thought
the Commission has a responsibility to the business and Backwaters has a
responsibility to the community.
, , , , ,
PUBLIC COMMENTS
Brad Buller, City Planner, noted the Commission had received a letter from
Steve Seeley requesting that the Commission consider amending the Foothill
Boulevard Specific Plan to permit a health club to locate in the Thomas Winery
Plaza. Mr. Buller said staff felt the use may be appropriate. He stated the
Commission should indicate whether an amendment should be initiated.
Commissioner Vallette asked if the applicant was aware the process may be
time-consuming.
Mr. Buller stated the process had been described to the applicant. He stated
that if there was no objection, staff would work with Mr. Seeley to begin
processing the amendment.
It was the consensus the Commission that the amendment could be pursued.
COMMISSION BUSINESS
H. HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION DUTIES AND RESPONSIBILITIES
Brad Buller, City Planner, stated he had tentatively decided that Historic
Preservation Commission items would generally be considered at the first
meeting of the month. He recommended that the Historic Preservation
Commission meetings be held immediately preceding the Planning Commission
meetings.
It was the consensus of the Commission that would be acceptable.
Mr. Bullet indicated that in July staff would begin training of the
Commissioners on historic preservation details not only at the meetings, but
also on an individual basis.
ADJOURNMENT
Motion: Moved by Melcher, seconded by Chitiea, carried 5-0 to adjourn.
Planning Commission Minutes -23- June 9, 1993
11:05 p.m. - The Planning Commission adjourned.
Respectfully submitted,
Secretary
Planning Commission Minutes -24- June 9, 1993