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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1994/10/18 - Workshop Minutes - PC-HPCCITY OF RANCHO CUCAMONGA PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES Adjourned Meeting October 18, 1994 Chairman Barker called the Adjourned Meeting of the City of Rancho Cucamonga Planning Commission to order at 5:35 p.m. The meeting was held in the Rains Room at Rancho Cucamonga Civic Center, 10500 Civic Center Drive, Rancho Cucamonga, California. ROT.!. CALl, COMMISSIONERS: PRESENT: David Barker, Larry McNiel, Peter Tolstoy, John Melcher, Heinz Lumpp STAFF PRESENT: Brad Buller, City Planner; Dan Coleman, Principal Planner; Nancy Fong, Senior Planner; Betty Miller, Associate Engineer O~PNER/DEVELOPER: Rick Mager, Lewis Homes; Tom Delaquila, Lewis Homes; Chuck Beecher, Lewis Homes; Jim Keisker, Keisker & Wiggle Architects, Inc.; Robert McClendon, Best Buy; Tom Gyulay, Best Buy; David Goehring, Best Buy; Berry Rosenberg, William Paul & Co. DIRECTOR'S REPORTS A. TOWN CENTER SOUARE UNIFORM SIGN PROGRAM - WESTERN LAND PROPERTIES Vice-Chairman McNiel arrived at 5:40 p.m. Nancy Fong, Senior Planner, presented the staff report. Chuck Beecher, Lewis Homes, described the proposed sign program. Chairman Barker requested that the applicant respond to the Commission's question from the meeting of October 12, 1994, as to the reason for not extending the same Terra Vista Town Center's name to this project. Rick Mager, Lewis Homes, responded that the current lease agreement with Target and Mervyn's prohibit the expansion of Terra Vista Town Center; therefore, they have to use a different name for the center. He felt that the name of "Town Center Square" projects an extension of Terra Vista Town Center without violating the lease agreement. Tom Delaquila, Lewis Homes, indicated that the site monument signs follow the design concept of Terra Vista Town with subtle variation. From the experiences of Terra Vista Town Center, they felt that the site monument signs are a bit too low; therefore, they have raised the height of the monument signs up to a maximum of 6 feet for this project. Commissioner Melcher asked if the applicant has detailed plans to show the placement of the project identification monument signs, the placement of the project/tenant identification monument sign within the proposed landscape median, the setback of the monument signs from the property lines, the treatment of the monument walls behind the sign, the transition of the angle of the monument walls to the parallel wall, etc. Mr. Delaquila stated that monument signs are shown on the conceptual plan but they have not prepared detailed plans that show the information requested. He stated that he agreed to staff's recommendation of providing a minimum of 2 feet of landscaping area at each end of the monument sign wings for the project/tenant identification monument sign. He indicated the monument walls are stuccoed on both sides with a concrete cap and landscaping will be planted behind the monument signs. Commissioner Melcher asked Mr. Delaquila the type of lighting proposed for the project/tenant identification monument signs. Mr. Delaquila explained the type of lighting proposed is recessed cove lighting. Both Commissioners Barker and Tolstoy emphasized that the light source must be concealed. Brad Buller, City Planner, clarified that the light fixtures are recessed underneath the pre-cast concrete cap. It was the consensus of the Commission that the project identification monument signs (A-1 and A-2 Sign Types) are acceptable; however, detailed plans for the proposed project/tenant identification monument sign together with the proposed landscape median must be provided for Commission review in conjunction with review of the driveway entry on Foothill Boulevard. Mr. Beecher stated that the next issue was the Best Buy sign. Chairman Barker stated that the proposed Best Buy sign is bigger than what the Commission had expected when they conceptually approved the center. Vice Chairman McNiel asked if alternative design were available for review tonight. David Goehring, Best Buy, answered that they had not provided alternative designs. He continued to state that this proposed sign is the smallest compared to the seven stores to be opened on November 11. Commissioner Tolstoy asked how far the building face is from the street, how big the letters are, and how big the sign can is. Mr. Beecher stated that the distance from the street is about 310 feet, the letter size is 3 feet 6 inches, and the sign is 12 feet 3 inches by 20 feet. Commissioner Tolstoy indicated that based on information from national studies, an 8-inch letter can be seen from a distance of 350 feet and a 3-foot letter can be seen as far away as 1500 feet. He believed that the sign is way too big. Commissioner Lumpp asked why the sign at the east elevation, consisting of individual channel letters, is different from the can sign place at the front entry. PC Ad3ourned Minutes 2 October 18, 1994 Tom Gyulay, Best Buy, stated that they typically use this type of sign for the side elevation. Commissioner Melcher stated that the City has discouraged the use of can signs and that the only can sign approved recently is the Ralph's sign. He asked the size of the Ralph's sign and how far away it is from the street. Mr. Beecher replied that the sign is 15 feet by 5 feet 8 inches and is about 400 feet away from the intersection of Milliken Avenue and Base Line Road. Commissioner Melcher noted that the Ralph's sign is treated with pre-cast concrete molding around the oval can which provides some architectural relief. Mr. Mager recalled that the Commission was shown the ticket can sign for the Best Buy early in the review process. The recollection of the Commission was that signs were never discussed during the review process to date and that the only sign review has been with the elevations of Best Buy which only showed a 10 x 16 foot sign space. Mr. Buller informed the Commission that Lewis Homes had shown a typical sign for Best Buy to staff and the Commission at the Pre-Application Review Workshop. He stated that because Best Buy is the major anchor for the center and the ticket sign is their registered trademark, typically staff would support such a sign. He said the issue for staff is the size and placement of the sign on the building. Mr. Gyulay stated that this is the smallest sign Best Buy has. Mr. Buller asked Mr. Gyulay whether the proposed sign (12 by 20 feet) is the smallest one in this area. Mr. Gyulay stated that the smallest sign in this area is in Mission Viejo and is about 160 square feet with a dimension of 10 by 16 feet. He continued that the building in Mission Viejo is smaller with a smaller storefront. Mr. Buller suggested that the Commission should concentrate on discussing the size, placement, and the color of the sign. Commission Tolstoy indicated that although he didn't like the yellow color, he could accept it because it is a registered trademark. He objected to the size of the sign. Mr. Gyulay asked the letter size for Service Merchandise. Ms. Fong answered that the letter "S" is 6 feet. Commission Melcher asked whether the sign can is tilted up or down. Mr. Gyulay stated that it is tilted up. Commissioner Melcher thought the sign tilted up at an angle is acceptable if the building face area can support the sign proportionately. Chairman Barker felt the sign tilted at a angle looks better. PC Adjourned Minutes 3 October 18, 1994 Commissioner Melcher suggested that the sign can overhang down to the pre-cast concrete trim. Vice-Chairman McNiel stated that the size of the sign and the field of the yellow color create an overpowering sign which violates the Sign Ordinance Design Standards. He stated he could not support the proposed sign. Both Chairman Barker and Commissioner Lumpp indicated they still questioned the reason for the two types of sign for Best Buy - the ticket can sign and the individual channel letters sign. Mr. Goehring responded that Best Buy has a hierarchy of signs, and the individual channel letters sign is considered as secondary signage. Commissioner Lumpp stated that he could accept the colors and the letter style, however he felt the proposed sign looks cheap and does not fit in to the image of Rancho Cucamonga and suggested that consideration be given to a raised letter on the can sign. Mr. Buller suggested the following modifications to the can sign: design it to look more like a price tag by recessing the can sign return and painting the recessed portion to match the stucco color, having the sign face bleed over the pre-cast concrete trim, and adding raised letters. Commissioner Melcher asked if the grey tone of the letters would stay. Mr. Gyulay stated that the letters will be all black. Chairman Barker suggested that the commission provide some direction to staff and the applicant. He stated he would like to get consensus from the Commission for the following items with regards to the can sign. 1. Size: Commissioner Melcher stated that accepting this can sign would mean lowering the quality of signs in the City and would set a precedent for other centers or box users. Vice-Chairman McNiel stated if he has to accept this can sign, he could only accept the smallest size which is 10 by 16 feet. Chairman Barker and Commissioners Lumpp and Tolstoy indicated they prefer a smaller sign with the dimensions of 11 by 17 feet. It was the consensus of the Commission that the applicant look at a sign size that is less than 200 square feet. 2. Pop-out Letters: The Consensus of the Commission was to have pop-out letters between I and i 1/2 inches. PC Adjourned Minutes 4 October 18, 1994 3. Placement: Allow the sign to overhang to the pre-cast trim above the entry and attempt to achieve an equal balance of space between the overhang and the distance from the top of the sign to the cornice element above the sign. The consensus of the Commission was to accept these features. Chairman Barker asked the Commission to respond to the secondary sign at the east elevation. Commissioner Melcher stated that the sign is placed at the north end of the east elevation which is closest to the residences at the northeast corner of Church Street and Elm Avenue. He felt that this sign is too big and also questioned the need for it Mr. Mager stated that the placement of this sign is incorrectly shown and that it is to be placed at the south end of the east elevation instead. It was the consensus of the Commission that they did not see the need for this sign; however if one is to be placed on the east elevation, the sign should be smaller. The Commission directed the applicant to submit revised plan for their review. The Commission also put on record that the acceptance of this can sign is because Best Buy is the largest tenant in the center and the sign is a nationally registered trademark and that it should not be considered as precedent setting for other users in this center or elsewhere. Moved by Lumpp, seconded by Tolstoy, carried 5-0 to continue Town Center Square Uniform Sign Program to October 26, 1994. Brad Buller asked if the Commission would consider having a Terra Vista Community Plan workshop on the October 26, 1994, Planning Commission agenda in addition to the Sign Program review. The Commission agreed to a Terra Vista Community Plan workshop on October 26, 1994. PUBLIC COMMENTS There were no public comments at this time. ADJOURNMENT The meeting adjourned at 8:00 p.m. Respectfully submitted, Brad Bullet Secretary PC Adjourned Minutes 5 October 18, 1994